[NL2-NL10] NL50 KTs

    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $8,75
      BB:
      $43,94
      MP1:
      $69,11

      0,25/0,5 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.65 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with T:spade: , K:spade:
      UTG2 folds, MP1 calls $0,50, 4 folds, Hero calls $0,25, BB checks.

      Flop: ($1,50) 2:club: , A:diamond: , J:spade: (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $0,50, MP1 calls $0,50, Hero calls $0,50.

      Turn: ($3,00) 9:spade: (3 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $1,00, MP1 folds, Hero calls $1,00.

      River: ($5,00) A:spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2,50, BB calls $2,50.

      Final Pot: $10,00

      Preflop: 5:1 with Broadways Suited is for me good according to my limp chart(Leo's)

      Postflop: I got 5:1 with a Gutshot + Backdoor but looking at their Stats, I honestly thought that due Implieds, I can justify my calling here because if I hit a Q, I would bet potsized on the Turn

      Turn: Doesnt change much except I got a solid 8 outs extra making it 11 outs in Total, 4:1 again and this one is +EV in my opinion.

      River: I could have betted like $3 or $4 but wouldn't a shove be representing something strong as in BB wouldnt call me on the River? I bet into him suddenly so that would make it suspicious.

      Also do I value bet too low or ?
      Thanks :)
  • 13 replies
    • matt1234
      matt1234
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 99
      Hi again Gerv.

      I fold flop as although you are getting a reasonable payoff if you hit your 8% shot on the turn, I don't feel 5:1 is enough to call there.

      As played, turn gives you 11 outs as you say which is ruffly 22% or 4.8:1-ish, and you are getting 4:1 pot odds plus implied, so I think this is +EV.

      River I like the value bet. Too much bigger and marginal hands don't call, and this way you make sure your turn call is +EV.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Hello Gerv,

      I would call flop if I was in position, but fold OOP.

      The turn call is good as you said yourself.

      The river, I think I might c/r because the villain bet into us both 2 previous streets, so, he should have some hand, but I'm not sure, I might have bet first to act as well. :) Anyway, I would bet 3$ on this river, shouldn't be too much to be called.
    • matt1234
      matt1234
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 99
      Burek - would argue that being OOP or in pos. makes no difference on flop as you are folding if you don't hit either way, if you do hit then the hand is more disguised.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by matt1234
      Burek - would argue that being OOP or in pos. makes no difference on flop as you are folding if you don't hit either way, if you do hit then the hand is more disguised.
      You've got a point, but I think that being IP sometimes grants you a free card on the turn, because when you call the villain will be usually more cautios, but if you check turn also, then you show weakness twice and he can bet again (luckily this time he gave good odds).
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by burek2000
      I would call flop if I was in position, but fold OOP.
      I agree on this because you rather want to have iniative on the betting rather than rely on your opponent betting size ;)
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Originally posted by burek2000

      I would call flop if I was in position, but fold OOP...

      since not only do we have to hit our 4-outer but also get paid when we hit. After the weak action on the flop there is no guarantee that either villain will have enough of a hand to call an appropriate bet(s).
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      I think since such a passive player is betting into you you can play for implied odds, but then I think you need to extract more value on the river! Either from a bigger valuebet or something that attracts fish calls like check/minraise :P

      Atleast that's what I think..
    • matt1234
      matt1234
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 99
      Would you rather leave the possibility that he checks behind and you get no value at all? Bet must be right here.

      Also the point about needing him to get value, being OOP means you can show weakness on turn if you hit and minraise turn as suggested, or as played will create more chances to extract value, because you have show weakness on every street, and not just calling behind if you are IP.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Oh to be IP on river is something I dream of being in spots like this. Nevertheless, What oh what to do?

      1. Checkraise? Could be the highest profit when it works. However, will villain not just check to us because of the FD?
      2. Potsize bet? Well, This is most likely to be thought of as a bluff imo but still looks strong enough for a villain to fold a marginal holding.
      3. 1/2 Potsize? Looks pretty damn strong eh? Imo a real problem against intelligient villains who know you bet smaller when you want to be called but against weaker opponents more likely to get called.
      4. 2/3 Potsize? Not too big, not too small. Could still be a bluff but not nescaserily. Middle ground between options 2 and 3 and possibly the least exploitable.

      To be honest I don't know what is best, but as I would make a bluff at 2/3rd potsize or potsize in this spot, that is the size that I will bet. If that means shoving to be unexploitable, I shove.

      I would play the rest of the hand the same way.
    • ysessa
      ysessa
      Basic
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 1,331
      I dont like your preflop complete, i would isolate mp1 or fold. I dont like your flop call either^^ oop only 4 clean outs 1 backdoor. the river i definitly bet 3-4$ he will not believe you an ace and call light.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by ysessa
      I dont like your preflop complete, i would isolate mp1 or fold.
      Doesnt Isolation means that you have to be In Position? I am in the SB so how does that works out when he calls as he should?

      check? c-bet? xyz?
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      Villian is a calling station, look at his stats, what is he betting with? PRF2 and AF 0.8 screams top pair. He has an Ace (even AK or AQ) and no idea how to bet, so I would play exactly as you, for all the same reasons listed. The only thing I would do different is bet 3/4 PS on the river. Even if he has a boat he will only call, don't ask why, thats just how passive chum play. So many times I shake my head in disbelief and wonder how I am left with any tokens at all.
    • allizdoR
      allizdoR
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2007 Posts: 4,568
      I have also made bad experiance by completing such hands. They have turn my non sd winnings very deeb into red. And eypecially with a smaller stack then 20BB!

      Isolation is one option, then watch the flop, his stats and play good poker, then you will generate money. He mostly have a weaker hand then your KTs.

      On the Flop I also fold because you are OoP and you only have 4 outs for your Queen (12:1) and maybe a half out for your BDFD.

      On the turn its getting more easier, because he bets very small and you can call of your odds.

      On the river its getting a bit tricky. I think when he bets flop and turn he can have an Ace. He is also not as agressive, that he will bets a Jack or a weaker hand.
      So I think he has on the river Trips or better.

      Of course you have a strong hand and he nearly couldnt read on it. So I think he will instantly bet the river. Then you can push.

      When you bet, he can fold weak hands and only raise realy strong hands.
      So I dislike your river play.