• Bronze
Joined: 07.10.2011
Hi,

on my HUD I have BB & ABB, and tend to look at ABB when deciding if to shove or not, but then I often end up shoving 16ABB which could be 30+BB.

Everything I've read about MTT's says stealing the antes is so important because of the effect they have on decreasing your stack if you dont try and steal them, and how you have to adjust when they come.

When watching on the tv and the pro analysis they only ever talk in BB never ABB, but at teh same time they always stress the importance of stealing the blinds when the antes kick in.

What do people use when deciding if to shove?
• 2 replies
• Gold
Joined: 11.01.2009
As tables have 8-9 players all the time (except when the field shrinks down to the few final ones), the abb-to-bb ratio is more or less constant, assuming that the ante is a more or less constant fraction of the big blind. (Generally, abb = bb + 6*ante at a full table. E.g. if the ante is 1/10-th of the bb, then abb = 1.6*bb.) Thus people prefer to talk in terms of bb's, but they might as well talk in terms of abb's, that would change only the absolute numbers but not the pot odds or guidelines.

Well, it does matter a bit because you might get short in an early stage when there are no antes, so I still advise to use abb for the sake of unification. The main thing that matters is the (preflop) stack-to-pot ratio - the ratio of your stack size to the size of the pot (that you're going to steal). MTT players have been calling it the M number since Harrington's times, and that's the lingo used in Pokerstrategy's articles as a homage to the tradition. Under the new terminology, the stack size in abb is, by definition, exactly 1.5 times the M number.

At which stack depth to start playing push/fold is a separate question. Coincidentally, I raised this question at tonight's Russian coaching, and the coach PuBePaHeT (pronounced as 'rivera net' = 'there's no river') advised to minraise (and fold even 4-4 in MP to a 3bet-shove) instead of openshoving even with 10 bb ~ 6 abb, but that's because he thinks most MTT regs are uncomfortable playing postflop and don't flat-call nearly as wide as they should (which is hugely exploitable) and also don't 3bet wide either (i.e. we usually have an easy fold to the 3bet except when we have premiums).

I.e. I guess the unexploitable strategy would be to minraise a polarised range (r/c premium hands, r/f weak suited Kx (as a blocker bluff) and low suited connectors that both can stand their ground postflop) and shove low pocket pairs + low Ax + broadways with 15 bb ~ 9 abb (you can use HoldemResources Calculator to examine the Nash equilibrium strategy for minraising and openshoving combined), but as the field is overly tight, people argue that minraising the entire opening range works better as an adjustment.

There's however no doubt that you should steal frequently in one of these ways. The antes surely make the risk-reward ratio of stealing much better.
• Bronze
Joined: 07.10.2011
Interesting what you say about r/f or r/c with 10BB, I was watching an EPT event recently and Dominic Panka (sp?) said something like start limping around 16BB, and he wasnt open shoving until 6-8BB.

Recently on several occasions at a resonably tight table I have spewed off a decent stack when I've shoved 16BB with something like A9 in late position and been called by AK, so I was already starting to think its better to min r/f or min r/c with better hands or if they just call then you can still outplay them in position.

I am going to be trying less shoving and more min r/f or r/c in my MTT's and see what happens