Mental game

    • FrozenElf
      FrozenElf
      Silver
      Joined: 06.07.2015 Posts: 654
      Hello im trying to improve my mental game and following the steps from the mental game of poker im wondering if im doing this correctly?

      1 Describe the problem?
      I feel nervous in 3 bet pots

      2 Why does it make logical sense that I would react, think or feel that way?
      because I could lose a big pot

      3 Why is that logic flawed?
      because I could lose a big pot in any type of pot

      4 What is the correct way to handle the situation?
      I cant control weather I win or lose I can only control I can only control how well I play

      5 Why is the correction correct?
      as long as I lose less then my opponents ill beat them

      if I got this whole thing completely wrong feel free to correct me thanks
  • 6 replies
    • Gothicrow
      Gothicrow
      Gold
      Joined: 15.11.2010 Posts: 834
      Hi FrozenElf, I'm not an expert in mental game, but curiously I was reading the book today to help me handle myself with some issues.

      Once said that, I think that in number 3, your answer is not as good as it could be. First of all, don't think only that you could lose a big pot in any situation, a poker reality is that you are going to loose big pots many times, that's a fact, and something that could help you to answer better that question is reading more about "hate-losing tilt", "risk aversion" (it seems that you fear to lose big when that's something that would happen very often) and learn more about variance. Probably would be useful to read also "fear of a bad run", "fear of mistakes" and also "injustice tilt". Just dig in it could help you to be a better player with some work.

      Now, from a technical point of view, working on your game in 3bet pots is going to help you to develop confidence on those spots.

      I hope this helps, and congrats because you are working on your mental game!! :f_drink:
    • FrozenElf
      FrozenElf
      Silver
      Joined: 06.07.2015 Posts: 654
      Hello Gothicrow,

      firstly let me say thank you because your reply was very good. it pointed out a few things, like how to use emotions and tilt to identify where you need to work on, i.e 3bet pots since I get nervous there (that seems obvious now you said that but I was wondering how can you use emotions and tilt to see where you need work for ages)

      so basically what your saying about answer 3 is that it doesn't underline the flaw that you HAVE to lose big pots since that is the reality in poker.

      again id like to thank you for pointing out the fact I need to read hate losing tilt (it would of probably took me ages to get here) since it seems most of my mental game problems are around losing.
    • Gothicrow
      Gothicrow
      Gold
      Joined: 15.11.2010 Posts: 834
      yeap, about answer 3 it's correct what you said :f_thumbsup: so you need to dig deeper on your fear of losing.

      Regards
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Maybe you feel that losing big pots will lead to a potential downswing which could (wrongly) "prove" that you're not as good as you would have liked. I believe your opinion about yourself is probably very dependent on (short term) results. This is faulty logic, you have to figure out why.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Your answers gotta be a whole lot more detailed bro.

      The answers to question 3 and 4 surely have to be detailed since they are what make you form your inject logic statements. Based on what you've written your inject logic statement can be "I can't control the result, I can only control the way I play". Is that logic statement enough to get you back in the correct frame of mind when you lose a 3-bet pot and are feeling scared while playing? If not then you clearly gotta dig deeper. The answers to these questions are what will help you figure out whats wrong and how to fix it.

      Here's an example of on of the mental hand histories I did for myself.


      1. Describe the problem.

      I am unable to fold even when I know I'm beat. I feel pot committed and unable to give up a hand, it's like I get emotionally attached to my hands.
      I am unable to make folds when losing. Seems like i desperately want to win and make looser river calls to win.

      This makes me lose even more. I try to win every time I play and when I am losing and I know that I am losing I chase my losses by making bad calls and being unable to give up my hands.


      2. Why does it make logical sense that you would react, think, or feel that way?

      I expect to win most of my sessions since I play with very weak competition and do very good table selection. I expect to beat the regulars at my stakes too as I feel I am superior in skill level to them. Hence when I am having a losing session triggered by any reason be it (running bad, mistake tilt or just pure variance) I enter a hate losing tilt mode cause I don't like to end sessions/days in losing especially when I have had a few back to back losing session. I try to end up recording a win and that makes me call wider especially on rivers even in spots where I know I should be beat. I try to give them weaker ranges which might not be accurate and end up levelling myself into calling cause I just want to win very badly and don't want to continue losing.

      3. Why is that logic flawed?

      Well I can't win every time. I am supposed to lose 40% of the times I play cause of variance. It's just not the nature of the game, there is enough variance involved. There is however a possibility that I can make very less errors by making the right folds, that way i save money now and get paid later when I do hit better part of my range.

      In the long run I start winning the game automatically by making the right folds right now as I don't lose that amount and my win rate won't fall as much.

      My aim should be to make the right decisions in most of the sessions I play and not to try and win every session. The game and my strategy are designed to let me win consistently over the long run, my graph already shows that, however trying to win every session and making wrong calls directly affects the slope of that curve and also sends me into a further tilt.

      4. What is the correct way to handle the situation?

      The correct way to handle the situation is to make correct folds in the short run even if that means I'll have losing sessions in the present cause that will enable me to have a high sloping curve in the long run. Money not spewed today is money earnt. I will not always win because of the variance and i will also be able to win a lot very soon because of the same variance.

      Also I need to understand that wanting to end every day in profit is impossible. Losing days don't mean I played bad as the strategy is a long term winning one. I need to make sure my mistakes are even less on losing days cause there I'll be saving money and when I hit my hands later or on another day I will get paid off anyway.

      5. Why is that correction correct?

      I have addressed the fact that I can't win as often as I would like to and that I can't control variance. I have also addressed the fact that the mistakes I make pile up into larger losses which affect my overall win rate and keeps me from moving up. Playing poker carefully and sticking to strategy especially when losing will minimize losses on losing days and maximize my overall profits.


      You just gotta dig deeper basically. As deep as possible and keep asking yourself why at every stage.
    • FrozenElf
      FrozenElf
      Silver
      Joined: 06.07.2015 Posts: 654
      Hello maheep, first of all let me say thankyou for the feedback.

      Is that logic statement enough to get you back in the correct frame of mind when you lose a 3-bet pot
      I quote in this statement you "Is that logic statement enough to get you back in the correct frame of mind when you lose a 3-bet pot" this is the mental hand history designed to correct flaws in your game over time not in real time while playing isn't it??? so what your saying there about a logic statement I already have one witch I say to myself when I lose a big pot "its not possible to win every hand your focus needs to be on playing every hand well" I say this everytime I lose a pot to myself and the answer is yes it helps a lot.

      1. Describe the problem.

      I am unable to fold even when I know I'm beat. I feel pot committed and unable to give up a hand, it's like I get emotionally attached to my hands.
      I am unable to make folds when losing. Seems like i desperately want to win and make looser river calls to win.

      This makes me lose even more. I try to win every time I play and when I am losing and I know that I am losing I chase my losses by making bad calls and being unable to give up my hands.
      I mean no disrespect when I say this, I am trying to learn this too and trying to get help from others, but I think here with your mental hand history you have 3 different problems in your answer to step 1 witch would mean you have to answer step 2 3 4 and 5 for each problem

      thanks for taking your time to help out