I Hate AA

    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Ok just needed to rant a bit, got AAs cracked twice tonight, once when i had 39.5BB and once when i had over 50BB. In the first hand i thought my play might be questionable, but on the second one, one of the worse suckouts i've gotten (in terms of BBs lost)

      Hand 1
      $0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
      10 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($35.37)
      UTG+1 ($49.25)
      Hero (UTG+2) ($19.75)
      MP1 ($29.20)
      MP2 ($16.93)
      MP3 ($9.90)
      CO ($49.75)
      BTN ($35.35)
      SB ($12.60)
      BB ($63.40)

      Pre-flop: ($0.75, 10 players) Hero is UTG+2 A: A:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.75, 1 fold, CO calls $1.75, BTN calls $1.75, SB calls $1.50, 1 fold

      Flop: T: K: :3s: ($9.25, 5 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $18, 1 fold, CO raises to $48, 1 fold, SB calls $10.85

      Turn: :5h: ($86.10, 3 players)

      River: J: ($86.10, 3 players)

      Final Pot: $86.10
      SB shows: :9s: :8s:
      Hero shows: A: A:
      CO shows: T: T:

      SB wins $39.71 ( won +$27.11 )
      CO wins $43.59 ( lost -$6.16 )
      Hero lost -$19.75
      MP2 lost -$1.75
      BTN lost -$1.75


      Hand 2
      $0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
      8 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      Hero (UTG) ($26.20)
      UTG+1 ($21.45)
      MP1 ($65.10)
      MP2 ($49.10)
      CO ($45.30)
      BTN ($50.20)
      SB ($11.20)
      BB ($121.42)

      Pre-flop: ($0.75, 8 players) Hero is UTG A: A:
      Hero raises to $1.75, 6 folds, BB calls $1.25

      Flop: :2s: K: :2h: ($3.75, 2 players)
      BB bets $3.75, Hero raises to $15, BB raises to $26.25, Hero calls $9.45

      Turn: J: ($54.45, 2 players)

      River: J: ($54.45, 2 players)

      Final Pot: $54.45
      BB shows: J: K:
      Hero shows: A: A:

      BB wins $51.85 ( won +$23.85 )
      Hero lost -$26.20
  • 23 replies
    • ClayRaver
      ClayRaver
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 62
      O well we all get sucked out. For a start i would raise pre flop more with aces $1.75 just isn't enough especially in them blinds. Also the second hand u couldn't of hoped for the player to have a better hand you had him in the best position possible. Yea sucked out by runner runner but not a bad position for you to be in after the cards are on there backs so. Aswell im sure you have sucked out other players just as bad so Keep getting yourself in them positions and you will win %95 Of the time
    • gaz639
      gaz639
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.05.2008 Posts: 506
      i agree, in the first one you should have raised more pre-flop, and on the second you will win a lot more of those than you lose so just stick at it
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      i don't know about raising a lot more, im playing SSS, so i just make a standard pot sized raise on all hands. i could raise 4xBB but i usually just click on the pot size button.

      anyway, here is one more for the album. Again overstacked (38BB this time), which is usually the perfect time, but seems like im cursed tonight when i get AA overstacked.

      $0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
      8 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($48.65)
      UTG+1 ($48.75)
      MP1 ($60.90)
      MP2 ($51.20)
      CO ($35.36)
      BTN ($7.25)
      Hero (SB) ($18.80)
      BB ($49.25)

      Pre-flop: ($0.75, 8 players) Hero is SB A: A:
      4 folds, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.50, BB calls $2, CO calls $2

      Flop: :7c: :2h: Q: ($7.50, 3 players)
      Hero bets $5, BB calls $5, CO folds

      Turn: :7s: ($17.50, 2 players)
      Hero bets $11.30, BB calls $11.30

      River: :5d: ($40.10, 2 players)

      Final Pot: $40.10
      Hero shows: A: A:
      BB shows: Q: Q:

      BB wins $38.10 ( won +$19.30 )
      CO lost -$2.50
      Hero lost -$18.80
    • gaz639
      gaz639
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.05.2008 Posts: 506
      i know it isn't a lot but if you raise 4BB instead of pot raise then maybe a couple of the weaker callers, the ones that sucked out would fold. With the QQ, the last one that was just unlucky. But pushing against QQ is going to make you win in the long run isn't it.

      Also i haven't played SSS for a while but if you're playing strict SSS shouldn't you be off the table with 25BB or more anyway, maybe then these suckouts wouldn't hurt you as much
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      i'm not playing strict SSS and well, i was just waiting for the orbit to finish before going out. It just happened that i caught AA thrice tonight (over 800 hands) in this situation, and lost all 3 times, what are the odds! Maybe i should buy the lottery.

      I don't think 3.5/4BB makes much of a difference. Its just much more convenient to hit the pot sized button when multitabling.
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      You talk about hating AA, I'm on a 13 BI downswing where my last 5 pair of aces have been owned in a row. It sucks, but it happens... seems to happen a lot to me though ^^

      And what do you mean by not playing "strict SSS"?
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      meaning, i play a bit looser, following not the basic chart but the advanced chart that's in the gold section in the German forum. Also steal aggressively in late position. And occasionally adjust my play depending on how loose / tight the table is.

      AA Sucks! :tongue:
    • gaz639
      gaz639
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.05.2008 Posts: 506
      Originally posted by elhh82
      meaning, i play a bit looser, following not the basic chart but the advanced chart that's in the gold section in the German forum. Also steal aggressively in late position. And occasionally adjust my play depending on how loose / tight the table is.

      AA Sucks! :tongue:
      i dont know this obv with not being a gold member but even if you use advanced charts don't you still play with upto 25BB's? Obv i cant see when you doubled up but on the last one where you lost to QQ you were in SB, you say you play the full orbit after which is upto the next BB but are you really saying that you went from 15-25BB's to 38BB's on the BB before this?
      which at the largest of 25BB when the hand started you must have won 13BB's? Or do you also stay on tables longer with bigger stacks depending on the players at the table?
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      When you are double stacked as SSS player you must adjust your play slightly to include some BSS elements. Every hand except the first one posted was a bad beat, the villians caught cards and nobody will fault you for your play. (unless you paid blinds to be double stacked in the SB, if so you deserved the beat and I hope you learned something)

      In the first hand you have 5, yes count them 5 players in the pot and if you look at the equity of AA vs 4 random hands you will notice that they are no longer the clear favorites to win. So you simply must play for pot control, instead you donk'd the flop and overbet the pot oop. The better option is to check/call or blockbet 1/4 potsize (what you want to pay for drawing to a flush) If you check and 2 players go all-in I would fold. You have to know that one player holds a better hand then you on a flop like that. Always. You are not playing NL10 anymore, some players accually think. You bet 1:2 pot odds with 2:1 hand odds. You will not win money playing like this, a better option is to leave the table at 25BB+ until you have also learned BSS and save your money.
      Playable hands that beat you:
      KT, KK, TT, 33 and XX :spade:
      It is very likely that one player holds one of these hands (maybe the KK reraises preflop, but then again, maybe not, notice the QQ in the last hand did not reraise and then floated you with top set?). Know when you are beat and play accordingly. AA does not suck. The way you played them does. Raise pot 4x BB makes a big difference, if you cant keep up, play less tables.
      If I sound harsh, good. You posted here so someone would give you the straight goods yes? Or did you just want a shoulder to cry on, or a sympathy hug with a pat on the back? This is poker, mistakes will cost you.
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      It's the reason why I open fold AA
    • davidangel
      davidangel
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      Originally posted by Hlynkinn
      It's the reason why I open fold AA
      Are you for real? Sounds like a donkey statement to me.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      more like a sarcastic statement :D
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      DavidAngel, i bet go differ,

      In the first hand you have 5, yes count them 5 players in the pot and if you look at the equity of AA vs 4 random hands you will notice that they are no longer the clear favorites to win.
      Not true, i didn't call all in preflop with 4 other players already in. If that is the case what you said is true. However, i pushed with a monoflop, and draw to the absolute nuts. If you check equilator, i have about 70% equity vs 4 random hands. However, i wouldn't think in this case im facing random trash of course, i'm thinking that there is maybe 50% chance that there is someone who has a better hand.

      Against a made flush, i have 32-33% equity.
      Against a set, i have 37.5% equity.
      Against a 2 pair, i have 44% equity.

      I needed about 40% to make a profitable push. Considering the fact that i'm not always behind here, i think the push is ok. I do think that this might not be the best line, but i don't believe that it is as bad as you make it out to be.
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Originally posted by gaz639
      Originally posted by elhh82
      meaning, i play a bit looser, following not the basic chart but the advanced chart that's in the gold section in the German forum. Also steal aggressively in late position. And occasionally adjust my play depending on how loose / tight the table is.

      AA Sucks! :tongue:
      i dont know this obv with not being a gold member but even if you use advanced charts don't you still play with upto 25BB's? Obv i cant see when you doubled up but on the last one where you lost to QQ you were in SB, you say you play the full orbit after which is upto the next BB but are you really saying that you went from 15-25BB's to 38BB's on the BB before this?
      which at the largest of 25BB when the hand started you must have won 13BB's? Or do you also stay on tables longer with bigger stacks depending on the players at the table?
      I doubled up within the orbit so i had a big stack. I will quit once the BB hits me again.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      the first hand you have to go broke definetly, I mean overpair + flush draw has great equity, even on omaha :) , I didn't like the huge overbet since you don't have to protect your hand. I think this is a good spot for check raise all in.

      btw: AA is the only hand that is winning for me, I hate that I disconected while having it.... Kings Queens Jacks and everything else is running like crap to me.
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      after relooking at it and thinking about it many times, i agree that the best line would be to make a standard contibet, and reraise all in on the flop.
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      Originally posted by Hlynkinn
      It's the reason why I open fold AA
      Dam, i thought i was the only one who knew about the AA pf fold bluff. It makes the other players think Im tighter than i really am! =)
    • Harold1
      Harold1
      Global
      Joined: 09.11.2008 Posts: 140
      I got blown away wAA KK and QQ yesterday, i think every hand i played the JJ was only saving grace.

      I raise 4x pre flop and get called and even re raised by BS with junk, I raise on the flop or go all in if they raise, they call make two pair or staright or flush or trips w junk pre-flop!

      I know they say "donks" will make u money in the long run but I lost half my BR yesterday playing nl10.

      I know i need more study but this does get depressing.
    • VTomukas
      VTomukas
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2007 Posts: 251
      If AA would always win, it wouldn't be a poker...

      It's easy to calm down - I just look at my PT3 statistics and they are saying that AA is way the most profitable hand I had :) That's what matters most, one or two loses is not so important.

      Of course, on PokerStars I had interesting downswing, and for one month AA was the hand that gave me most loses :D But since I rarely play cash on PS, I don't see a problem there too - t would need a lot more hands on PS before making the decisions :D
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