PokerStrategy's ICM trainer - is it still relevant?

    • indigotiger
      indigotiger
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2011 Posts: 14
      Hi all,

      I've been using pokerstrategy's ICM trainer pretty much every day for the last few weeks, and although it's awesome, i can't help but think...

      Is the maths in there still relevant to SNG players today?

      It's a total eye opener for sure, but things change in poker and i'm just wondering if the ranges/calculations in the software is still relevant to poker players today?

      :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:
  • 5 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Hi, indigotiger,
      I'm pretty sure that the strict ICM math doesn't change.
      What does change is what poker players do with it.

      I've found that some big stacks will make poor ICM calls just because they can do so w/o sacrificing their chip lead.
      They can do so knowing that some short stacks (not me of course -- and certainly not you :coolface: ) will make poor open shoves.

      In any case, to succeed at SnGs you'll need a solid foundation in ICM -- so time well spent IMO

      Best of luck,
      VS
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,925
      Hmmm it depends if the structures you are using are the same as those available in the poker clients. I know PokerStars have introduced antes into nearly all their STT offering. What I don't know is if ICM Trainer has updated to this affect. That would change things a bit.

      I spent many an hour using this software and it did give me a solid foundation for sure :)

      What games/limits are you playing currently and where?
    • tonypmm
      tonypmm
      Silver
      Joined: 11.01.2009 Posts: 3,853
      Originally posted by UPAY4DINNER
      Hmmm it depends if the structures you are using are the same as those available in the poker clients. I know PokerStars have introduced antes into nearly all their STT offering. What I don't know is if ICM Trainer has updated to this affect. That would change things a bit.
      Right, there are too few structures and no ability to create a custom one to compensate for that :f_mad: , which would solve the problem once and forever. Even iPoker's 6-max structure (70/30) is absent :ayfkm: There's even no ability to verify the percentages in the built-in structures. The 'Help' button in the software directs to an URL that no longer exists, and the user lands on the main poker tools section page instead.

      All in all, ICM Trainer is now like from the Stone Age.
    • Post removed

    • Harrier88
      Harrier88
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.05.2012 Posts: 1,971
      Hey guys,

      To answer the original question, the mathematics of the ICM do not really change over time, so they should definitely still be relevant today. Keep in mind that the ICM makes four simplifying assumptions about SNGs, as it is demonstrated in this article:
      - All players are equal in skill.
      - Current position is irrelevant.
      - Table image of players is irrelevant.
      - Blinds are irrelevant.
      With these simplifications, changes in the playing style of SNG players should hardly have any impact whatsoever on ICM-based decisions. That being said, the ICM is not a perfect model, it is more of a guideline.

      As far as I know, the ICM Trainer is unfortunately no longer being developed, and there haven't been any updates in a long time. I agree with tonypmm that the biggest problem is the lack of available tournament structures, especially considering that they have been changed by many poker rooms in recent years. I wish there was something we can do about it, but unfortunately, it's out of our hands.

      But like I said, the mathematics behind the decisions as they are presented in this program are still relevant.