OK Hand Ranges to defend the Blinds

  • 15 replies
    • hoagy
      hoagy
      Silver
      Joined: 21.10.2014 Posts: 81
      Hi,

      I need a very strong hand to play OOP against a tight UTG open raise, naturally I would play a wider range against a loose CO or BU but still being OOP not too loose, then wider again against SB because of position.
      It does depend on game type, what do you play?
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 5,636
      Against earlier positions we shouldn't defend much because their range is too tight. Vs co btn and sb we can defend much wider.
    • rompas
      rompas
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.02.2014 Posts: 2,509
      Hi i would recommened takeing a look at w34z3l's 6max walkthrough - (microstakes edition) there is a good guideline how to contstruct hand ranges in all positions , i think its a good start. of course all players dont use this so you need takes notes and adapt to how and what they play

      Regards/ Rompas
    • Stroill343
      Stroill343
      Basic
      Joined: 23.07.2015 Posts: 46
      What's your take on this BB defend?

      BTN: 60.38 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
      Hero (BB): 31.94 BB
      UTG: 13.29 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
      UTG+1: 17.9 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 5)
      UTG+2: 48.21 BB (VPIP: 90.91, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
      MP: 38.69 BB
      MP+1: 4.73 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
      CO: 52.22 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)

      8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 2 BB) Hero has 4:diamond: A:heart:

      fold, fold, UTG+2 raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 2 BB, BTN calls 2 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

      Flop: (9 BB, 4 players) 7:heart: K:heart: J:club:
      Hero checks, UTG+2 bets 2 BB, fold, BTN calls 2 BB, fold

      Turn: (13 BB, 2 players) 6:spade:
      UTG+2 bets 2 BB, BTN calls 2 BB

      River: (17 BB, 2 players) A:club:
      UTG+2 checks, BTN checks

      UTG+2 shows 9:heart: 9:diamond: (One Pair, Nines)
      (Pre 54%, Flop 11%, Turn 5%)
      BTN shows Q:heart: J:diamond: (One Pair, Jacks)
      (Pre 46%, Flop 89%, Turn 95%)
      BTN wins 17 BB
    • Stroill343
      Stroill343
      Basic
      Joined: 23.07.2015 Posts: 46
      They're not free videos.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 5,636
      1. We are not playing as SB we are CO so what are you defending?
      2. You should be playing with 100bb, I don't know much about short stack strategy so I can't comment really on this hand.
    • Stroill343
      Stroill343
      Basic
      Joined: 23.07.2015 Posts: 46
      Originally posted by la55i
      1. We are not playing as SB we are CO so what are you defending?
      2. You should be playing with 100bb, I don't know much about short stack strategy so I can't comment really on this hand.
      Sorry about that wrong hand. Done re uploading.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 5,636
      I might call this with suited Ax but since our hand is off suit I would just fold pre flop. As played fold flop is correct.
    • Stroill343
      Stroill343
      Basic
      Joined: 23.07.2015 Posts: 46
      But we're getting 8 to 1 on our money.
      How much pot odds do we need to make this call profitable?
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 5,636
      Yes but the thing is if we hit an A or a 5 we still have to fold on the flop. With off suit cards our hand can't hit flush on the flop and flush draw is less likely. With this hand we have to fold if we don't improve to 2 pair . With suited we could continue if we get a flush draw or backdoor flush draw + pair for example. probability in hitting 2 pair is 2%.
    • hoagy
      hoagy
      Silver
      Joined: 21.10.2014 Posts: 81
      Hi Stroill,

      I wouldn't see that as a defence move, an EP raises it is much more likely he holds something he wants to play rather than just steal your blind. You put money in a pot to see what you thought was a cheap flop so it is more a speculative play, but A4o is not really a hand for a speculative move and playing it out of position in that situation it had very little chance. To play a 4 way flop in that situation and OOP I would need, ATs+ AJo+ 66+ KQs KJs, I would play other more speculative hands with good implied odds but short stacks limit that style of play, I would always fold A4o pre flop.

      What range would you put the UTG2 player on there?

      What is your post about the videos?
    • Stroill343
      Stroill343
      Basic
      Joined: 23.07.2015 Posts: 46
      Originally posted by hoagy
      Hi Stroill,

      I wouldn't see that as a defence move, an EP raises it is much more likely he holds something he wants to play rather than just steal your blind. You put money in a pot to see what you thought was a cheap flop so it is more a speculative play, but A4o is not really a hand for a speculative move and playing it out of position in that situation it had very little chance. To play a 4 way flop in that situation and OOP I would need, ATs+ AJo+ 66+ KQs KJs, I would play other more speculative hands with good implied odds but short stacks limit that style of play, I would always fold A4o pre flop.

      What range would you put the UTG2 player on there?

      What is your post about the videos?
      Thanks for distinguishing defense and weak play.
      UTG2 has Over cards with no ace. K7o, J9o, maybe.

      So in this scenario are we getting the correct odds to call?
      What does your equity calculator says?

      I'm still trying to figure out what tools to use and how to use 'em effectively.
    • hoagy
      hoagy
      Silver
      Joined: 21.10.2014 Posts: 81
      I am probably not the best person to ask about correct odds Stroill I don't stick to strict mathematical play, my game depends more on the read/feel I get for the other players, maybe some other posters could point out odds for a call there, as it is highly unlikely I would call in that situation at all, my move would have been 3-bet or fold, but I would have been playing with 100BB stack.

      Using an equity calculator you could input assumed ranges for the players that moved before you and it would output a range that you could play which would stand up well against them, but it won't give you specific odds to make a pre flop call.

      It is very unlikely a player would open with K7o or J9o from UTG+2 that would be a very loose player opening in early position with perhaps 35% of his hands. So lets say for example you take the ranges by W34z3L which Rompas directed you to above (also remember they are for a 6 max game, this is only a very rough example to give you fuel for thought), using those you could assume:

      The EP to open with 13%, 55+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,J9s+,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,AJo+,KQo

      The CO to call with 8%, QQ-55,ATs+,KQs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,AQo+

      The BU to call with 9%, QQ-33,ATs+,KQs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,AQo+

      To be sure of having more than 25% equity against those ranges an equity calculator would advise you play about 7% of hands perhaps 88+,AJs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AQo+

      In your example by only calling from BB, after the flop you have no initiative in the hand and a very bad position being first to act, factors like that can not be accounted for by an equity calculator.

      It takes time to get used to using calculators and software so stick in there you will get the hang of it. The software pages here review some great software. In my opinion Equilab is an excellent equity calculator.

      For cash games I would recommend tracking software or HUD and an equity calculator. If you download Equilab you could experiment with the many ranges included and also add the ranges by W34z3L to the user defined section and experiment with those by adjusting them.
    • htghguuh
      htghguuh
      Silver
      Joined: 02.01.2014 Posts: 146
      I change my defence on BB ;I rarely would keep to the same hands; if I miss on the flop completely fold;it is a loss but in future hands nobody going to try steal .Made some pretty amazing showdownsI and had some pretty amazing curses
    • Post removed