SSS Preflop betsize

    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      I keep hearing players insisting that you have to bet 4xBB + 1xLimpers Preflop, instead of 3.5BB+1xLimpers (potsize, hence easier to do this on sites with pot button), and some even say that it makes a BIG difference. I do not believe it makes much of a difference as long as you stay consistent.

      I've sat in on xarry2's coachings and he always bets potsize, saw many videos where other higher limit players do so too.

      Could someone put this argument to rest?
  • 7 replies
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
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      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      You are right. I don't think it makes much of a difference.
    • exorcism
      exorcism
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      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 159
      when xarry took over ingol's coaching for SSS he also bet potsize and just mentioned that there is no difference, and that he liked to just press the pot button, instead of adjusting the slider or whatever
    • Gerv
      Gerv
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by TribunCaesar
      You are right. I don't think it makes much of a difference.
      In the long run it can save you money but on lower limits, there are fishes so with SSS you are going to be paid out sooner due extra 0.5bb, add that on up 100 hundred times and you have 2 1/2 buyins for example.

      Around NL100/200, I would bet 3.5bb+1, under that level, just do 4bb+1
    • davidangel
      davidangel
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      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 456
      I agree with Gerv... additional reasoning:
      Bet 4x pot upto NL50, that way you are also able to push AQ and TT preflop on the ratio chart easier. You often dominate with those hands.
      18.5 BB 4BB betsize ratio 3.62:1
      18.5 BB 3.5BB betsize ratio 4.28:1
      In addition at 15BB you don't get a 2.5:1 ratio with 3.5BB betsize, thus you have to fold when re-raised with your marginal hands. (and you often get no respect at 15BB, the fishy gamblers just want to flip a coin with minor risk to thier stack)
    • bkbart
      bkbart
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      Joined: 01.04.2007 Posts: 327
      Originally posted by davidangel
      , that way you are also able to push AQ and TT preflop on the ratio chart easier. You often dominate with those hands.
      I would tend to argue the other way, you are often racing and seldom dominating. The only hands that reraise you preflop that you are dominating are 88 99 AJ and maybe KQ and A10 vs a real fish. There are AA KK QQ JJ AK that have you dominated..... so you are dominated more often than the other way around. Against a caller however you are looking alot better.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
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      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Lower limits, Villains play way looser than a 3% reraise range. Often I see Villains limp/reraise with pocket deuces on Nl50 with semi-normal stats.

      ;)
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      It depends on the game and both your and your opponents play style.

      Eg. Lower limits where you expect loose action PF and are playing tightly then make it 4BB for value.

      Eg.Higher limits where players don't typically surrender a huge PF edge to you (especially if you play super-tight) then 3BB is fine since you will be likely playing a bit looser than std. SSS. It also allows you to widen your opening range somewhat and it also gives you slightly more room for manouver post-flop (beware as this works both ways).

      Pre-flop raise sizing is a massively important part of any sophisticated SSS.

      EG. PFR 4BB-> 9BBish pot on flop(SPR=1.8). +60%c-bet=1/2 stack committed.

      PFR 3BB-> 7BBish pot on flop(SPR=2.4). +60%c-bet=1/3 stack committed.

      Please take note if you think PF raise sizing makes no difference.