Big blind BvB R table

    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Okay so following the last thread I took a shot at the Playability editor BvB for Power equilab.

      Vs 3bb raise
      We need 2/(2+1+3)=33.33% equity

      VS 32%

      we'd call this




      VS 44%


      we can call all these:



      And around 44%+ is a very common frequency, most regs are used to raising even more as people fold too much.

      As it seems loose I've played with R in play ability editor in Power Equilab, got this:

      - 100% for broadways
      - 7% discount for junk offsuit hands
      - 13% discount for offsuit hands
      - 9% discount for offsuit higher 1+2 gappers

      Using this if we play vs 44% sb steal

      1) Vs 3bb:



      2) VS 2.5bb:




      Is that somewhat realistic/what you use in your games?
      How would you change the R table for specific hands in the charts?

      In terms of actual strategy we can call all those, and make up 3bet combos simply based on number of value combinations + top of folding hands + hands that benefit from 3betting more than flat like 63s 43s other SCs etc. As people's sizings and opening ranges vary so much BvB getting somewhat accurate playability editor should be the easiest way to actually devise a strategy, as it'll be hard to have one fixed one with so much variety out there.


      EDIT: had a question about the software
      It's Power Equilab.
      You arrive at the ranges by
      1) Put villains range
      2) Use hand range calculator - set minimum equity, set play ability editor for R (that table I posted) and it gives you the range.

      hand range calculator is in normal equilab too (green arrow), the R and playability editor only in power equilab
  • 11 replies
    • double2
      double2
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      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Since you are in position it's very possible that the R is always at least 100%, and could be more for some hands.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      That means we should have pretty much like 5-10% fold in BB any vs 44%+ 3x raise
      or 2.5bb and lower vs pretty much any range?
    • double2
      double2
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      Originally posted by LemOn36
      That means we should have pretty much like 5-10% fold in BB any vs 44%+ 3x raise
      or 2.5bb and lower vs pretty much any range?
      That is very possible. Usually against 3bb open I defend by calling the same % he opens and then 3bet 40% of that number. So against 50% I would defend ~70%. But maybe this is too tight. I guess it also depends on rake. Another good way to figure out if we are defeding too tight is to check out how are you doing with your bottom range. If it's higher than -100bbs/100hands, then you should be playing more loose.
    • mattyvx
      mattyvx
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      Joined: 15.04.2015 Posts: 493
      nice post to show really how wide we can play, how can i check this in PT4? can't seem to find a good way to do it, the heatmap visualizer doesn't tell you bb/100 which sucks

      I checked my stats BBvSB and my VPIP 46 3B 3Bet 11.7 BB/100 -22, other stats are Raise cbet 13.2 total AF 1.35, fold cbet 38%.

      Would appear i'm either calling too much if my villians are tight or not 3betting enough as my VPIP / PFR ratio seems high

      only a few k sample though
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      I put in bottom crap hands (bottom 25% ish) call BvB
      and I'm slightly over breakeven
    • double2
      double2
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      Originally posted by LemOn36
      I put in bottom crap hands (bottom 25% ish) call BvB
      and I'm slightly over breakeven
      BE means 0bbs/100 hands or -100bbs/100 hands?

      Originally posted by mattyvx
      nice post to show really how wide we can play, how can i check this in PT4? can't seem to find a good way to do it, the heatmap visualizer doesn't tell you bb/100 which sucks

      I checked my stats BBvSB and my VPIP 46 3B 3Bet 11.7 BB/100 -22, other stats are Raise cbet 13.2 total AF 1.35, fold cbet 38%.

      Would appear i'm either calling too much if my villians are tight or not 3betting enough as my VPIP / PFR ratio seems high

      only a few k sample though
      Hmm, you should check out stats like "call BB vs SB" and "3bet BB vs SB". I use HM2 so not able to help. But you should filter something like Hero is BB, Villain is SB, pot unopened, call pre flop true, and then choose in range selection only crappy hands.
    • NothingIsForSho
      NothingIsForSho
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      Do any of you guys have any large sample stats on what BB fold to SB steel generally turns up to be?
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Originally posted by double2
      Originally posted by LemOn36
      I put in bottom crap hands (bottom 25% ish) call BvB
      and I'm slightly over breakeven
      BE means 0bbs/100 hands or -100bbs/100 hands?

      Originally posted by mattyvx
      nice post to show really how wide we can play, how can i check this in PT4? can't seem to find a good way to do it, the heatmap visualizer doesn't tell you bb/100 which sucks

      I checked my stats BBvSB and my VPIP 46 3B 3Bet 11.7 BB/100 -22, other stats are Raise cbet 13.2 total AF 1.35, fold cbet 38%.

      Would appear i'm either calling too much if my villians are tight or not 3betting enough as my VPIP / PFR ratio seems high

      only a few k sample though
      Hmm, you should check out stats like "call BB vs SB" and "3bet BB vs SB". I use HM2 so not able to help. But you should filter something like Hero is BB, Villain is SB, pot unopened, call pre flop true, and then choose in range selection only crappy hands.
      like -99bb/100 :)
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,356
      Originally posted by NothingIsForSho
      Do any of you guys have any large sample stats on what BB fold to SB steel generally turns up to be?
      got1.1mill hands+ what filter would that be specifically (PT4) ?

      Expect it to not be even remotely close to levels it should be if R is truly close to 100 even with offsuit hands.
    • Kalecia
      Kalecia
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      Joined: 28.08.2015 Posts: 184
      I think it's impossible to build such ranges in GENERAL.

      It would be much easier to build such range vs exact villain considering not only preflop factors , but additionaly post flop, because even if we play good preflop, we still have another 3 streets to play. It is shit load of work and I wouldnt bother with this unless smth like NL1k or room with small player pool, where I am spending days with the same guys at the table.

      I am writing such opinion because few years ago I heard a story about a guy who was illegaly buying databases and he was working on such thing for month(exact ranges and complete post flop plans, it is probably easier nowadays because of the advanced tools like flopzilla etc)), then he was sitting HS tables and was crushing best regs after that he was disappearing with several or houndreds k$ (dunno exact numbers) like a ghost.
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
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      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      So if you are BE with buttom range, it means that you should be folding it because of rake