Question about Equity realisation

    • WilliamBoo
      WilliamBoo
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2012 Posts: 424
      Hi! First of all, sorry for my english!
      I have doubts about a video I saw recently on this subject.
      The video in question is the following: http://es.pokerstrategy.com/video/37920/

      The question I'm going to ask was written in the comments, but no one answered me, probably because of my shitty english hahaha

      The question is: This guy suggests that when it comes to defending the blind to an OR, depending on the villain profile, there are better hands to call preflop than others when we are in the bottom of our range.

      He puts two examples of villains. Here I put the video capture:



      This villain is not a multi berreller and not very aggressive either, and tends to go to showdown, which will able to realize our equity more often.
      Between a hand like 22 or T9o he prefers T9o, because we will hit middle pairs, gutshots, OESD with which we will be able to see many cheap rivers.
      On the other hand, with 22, the times we hit our set, we almost never get 3 streets of value becuase he folds to a raise cbet a lot, and he is going to check behind most of the times as well.

      So far, so good. Let's see the second example which is what brings me doubts:



      Here the villain is more agro and is going to be a lot harder to face multiple barrels with marginal showdown value hands, so it makes more sense to go for a set with 22 and get lots of value when we hit.
      He is a guy who folds a lot to a raise cbet too, so we want to hold hands with draw potential so we can check raise lots of boards, and here he mentioned that hands like T9o of the previous example no longer works as well as it only hits gutshots or OESD, so he prefer hands like 96s.
      THIS is the reason for my question: I see that there isn't so much difference in a bottom range between T9o and 96s against this type of opponent. Ok...T9o ceases to interest us to hit middle pairs, since we are not going to call so many streets with them, but it has a similar draw potential than 96s!
      FOR ME, the hands that start to lose value are broadways with bad kickers, because we can only expect to hit top pair with horrible kickers and we will be in the difficult position of having to call down against multiple barrels. We cannot raise cbets as a semibluff becuase we don't have any and we are dead against his calling range.

      Remember that we are always talking about the worst of our range ... so the issue goes to hands like 96s, T9o or 22.

      I think it's clear that in the first case 22 doesn't work, but T9o does. It also seems clear that 22 works much better in Example 2, but it does not seem so clear that T9o stops working and 96s does it instead.

      What do you think???
  • 3 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Disclaimer: I am NOT a coach!

      I have not seen the video, but I tend to agree with you that Kxo and Qxo are terrible hands to play vs a BU open-raiser.
      In my case I don't play them at all if x < 8
      (but I might play them if suited, and I might even 3Bet/Fold if they're suited)

      According to my gameplan, I'm supposed to 3Bet/Fold K7o and Q7o, but I almost never do that vs an unknown -- I need some sort of read.
      I might do this anyway if I'm planning to make him think I'm an idiot. Believe me, it isn't hard to get people to believe I'm an idiot :coolface:

      I would rather hold 97s than 96s and 78s even more. Open raisers tend to have more higher cards in their range, and by having lower cards we can hit flops he totally misses. 78s is the best because it is two ranks away from each of the two "vital" cards. You cannot make a straight without a T or a 5.

      So if it gets close, I'm folding both T9o and 96s but I might keep 78s at least through the flop.
      I'll continue past the flop with at least a pair on a low board, or any 1-card draw.
      My preferred flop for these hands is a straight flush, but that is asking a lot.

      On really dry flops like K72 where I hold 78s, I might even check/raise the flop, but I'm out of there if he plays back strongly.

      You don't mention what limits this applies to. I use the above plan at NL 2 and NL 5.

      Oh, and your English is quite fine, really.

      Best of luck,
      VS
    • WilliamBoo
      WilliamBoo
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2012 Posts: 424
      Thanks for your answer! I've really never thought of that 78s thing :f_drink:

      But what do you think about different types of hands against different types of players?

      I'm talking (the video is talking :P ) about hands with similar equity which play in a different way against different types of opponents.

      I really recommend wathing this video.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Originally posted by WilliamBoo
      I'm talking (the video is talking :P ) about hands with similar equity which play in a different way against different types of opponents.
      Hi, WilliamBoo,
      You see this concept talked about as the "playability" of a hand.

      Here are two hands I pulled out of then air and ran through Equilab
      MP has a "loose" open raising range according to Equilab

             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP3    61.34%  60.22%   1.12% { 22+, A9s+, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, A9o+, KJo+, QJo }
      BU     38.66%  37.54%   1.12% { 87s }



             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP3    61.86%  61.13%   0.73% { 22+, A9s+, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, A9o+, KJo+, QJo }
      BU     38.14%  37.42%   0.73% { K9o }


      Which would you rather play?
      K9o is so often dominated by the heart of MP's range. 87s much less often -- but note that 87s is also in MPs range.
      87s is more "playable" because:
      :diamond:   A solid hit is well disguised
      :diamond:   A total miss is much easier to lay down
      :diamond:   Can flop a lot of draws that might be profitable to semi-bluff

      Just for laughs I tried this one:

             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP3    59.76%  58.96%   0.80% { 22+, A9s+, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, A9o+, KJo+, QJo }
      BU     40.24%  39.43%   0.80% { 22 }

      Playability here is extremely easy:
      You hit your set or you're outta there.

      So I guess the exercise ahead of us is:
      How would you play each of these against:
      :diamond:   A TAG
      :diamond:   A nit
      :diamond:   A maniac
      Of course, MPs opening range would be different in each of those cases.

      Originally posted by WilliamBoo
      I really recommend wathing this video.
      I plan to! :f_drink:


      Peace,
      VS