Table Talk (online) - do u use it to your advantage?

    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      I think that this is an area that could potentially give you a bigger edge if employed correctly. Poker for me is as much about psychology as it is about maths, even online. I've been toying with this for a while and I see some good results - at least it definitely hasn't hampered my game.

      For example, I had this guy to my left who'd almost always push all-in from BB whenever I limp from SB in an unopened pot (he was shortstacked in an MTT). He must have had a range of 80% or something. I limped from SB again with 95o and wondered if I could talk him into seeing a cheap flop. I simply said "watch out, I could be trapping!"... sure enough the hand was checked down all the way to the river. As it turned out, he definitely had a hand that he could and would have pushed me with (given his range) - KTs. Next round I raised him (I had KQs), he folded, and I said "34o that time lol".

      One of my other favourite methods is trying to force the big stack out of his comfort zone and induce mistakes out of him... after all, he's the biggest source of money on the table! If he's too tight I'd go something like "come on, you should be bullying us around a bit!". Or if he folds when he's had something like 5:1 pot odds to knock someone out, I go "come on, you could have called with any 2 cards there!". If he's too aggressive I pick a spot and re-raise him, then I show my bluff and say "next time I can do that with Aces.... or not".

      Like I said, it's all about getting people out of their comfort zones, getting them to play in a way they otherwise wouldn't. Subtle, playful one-liners are my weapon of choice. The only obstacle is when I'm not really in the mood.. because I don't want my lines to sound forced or too "mechanic"... I definitely need to be "feeling it".

      I know there is a "mute" function and all... but I doubt anyone uses it at all unless someone is extremely annoying or spamming.
      Thoughts?
  • 20 replies
    • Freaky304
      Freaky304
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2008 Posts: 63
      The first example isn't the best.. I want loose raises they are easy money just re-raise with any suitable cards (steal and re-steal charts) and if you have a really good hand like aces you could even try to trap him. Now you have realised 1 cheap hand but he plays alot tighter costing you money in the long run.

      Second example, many people don't even look at the chat, and if the bigstack is a half decent pokerplayer he isn't so easy to push out of his comfort zone.

      Maybe it has some added value but I don't think it is of real big influence on the game (unlike real life games where people give away alot by reacting to chatter).

      I sometimes use the chat to have some fun with people during tournaments but usually i play with minimum 4 open tables and I think most people here play with even more, so chatting is not something most players have time for.
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      In both examples, the big question for me was "can I make people play any differently just by table chatting?"... I look for opportunities when I'm in the mood to test out this question, and the answer so far is a resounding YES.

      The next question now is "can I make people play differently, in a way that would be profitable?"... obviously this one won't be as simple but I see loads of potential for it to increase my profitability. Like I said, I'm still toying with this and have made no claims to have reached the point of profitability yet.

      Originally posted by Freaky304

      Second example, many people don't even look at the chat, and if the bigstack is a half decent pokerplayer he isn't so easy to push out of his comfort zone.

      Maybe it has some added value but I don't think it is of real big influence on the game (unlike real life games where people give away alot by reacting to chatter).
      I'm actually fairly certain that it DOES have an impact, if even a sub-conscious one, on the bigstack's play... especially if he thinks he is immune to such things. Tilt is not something that can easily be consciously controlled (remember, if you play ANY differently than you would, then you are on tilt), and if I manage to push the right buttons and get under their skin, I'm pretty sure it can pay off.
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Sure you can use the table talk to your advantage... I'm just not that bored.

      No just kidding :tongue:
      There are countless artikels about this, but I dont use it. The psychology factor playes a huge roll in MTT's, but it's real difficult to tilt someone using online chat. This is pretty usefull in life tournaments though :)
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      the most famous of this must be the "Will you show me if I fold"... Like seriously what information are the guys trying to dig up with asking this question?...

      Other one is when they ask me what I had after the hand.. I always reply... "My favorite hand pocket 4's"

      but most of the time I'm concentrating on something completely different than the chat window..


      I have a story that fits in this thread tho... So few days ago I was playing a set of 4 $22 sng's... So a TAG player is on two of my tables... First we get HU in one of the tables... And even tho he was multi tabling 4 tables he was an active chat window user :) so... so in that first HU I complete the sb with QQ... i had done this two times with potential hands like 87s but he had always shove... So now I obv. go for the sb complete... He wakes up with A4o and shoves... I press the call button quicker than a lightning and win him...

      Now the second tourney we are three handed... and he goes on like "we will be hu again I won't loose this time" or something like that... Well I bust the guy and we get HU again... in the first hand I say "btw I'm always trapping when I complete sb"... He didn't raise my sb completes after that... true story...
    • Freaky304
      Freaky304
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2008 Posts: 63
      Originally posted by Hlynkinn
      the most famous of this must be the "Will you show me if I fold"... Like seriously what information are the guys trying to dig up with asking this question?...
      Say yes and they will probably call :) but irl the answer doesn't matter you listen and look at how the answer is given, search for tells. Online i guess they do it alot because it's done on tv it sounds so pro ;)

      [Quote]
      I'm actually fairly certain that it DOES have an impact, if even a sub-conscious one, on the bigstack's play... especially if he thinks he is immune to such things. Tilt is not something that can easily be consciously controlled (remember, if you play ANY differently than you would, then you are on tilt), and if I manage to push the right buttons and get under their skin, I'm pretty sure it can pay off.
      [/quote]well okay i'm not saying you can't influence any player, but still I don't know if it has a serious impact in the long run. I use the chat too sometimes (usually when the set goes to its end and i'm left with 2 or 3 tables). But most players that actually can play play multi-table and don't really pay attention to the chat.

      and personally I can honestly say people have tried to be nice and tried to treat me as shit in the chat box but i've never played even one hand different because of it EXCEPT if the chat and the actions together give me the idea the opponent is tilting but even then not without confirming it by looking at the change in his play.

      Although i'm very interested in your findings. Maybe you can find something that everyone here can use to his/her advantage perhaps in MTT or cashgames :)


      Other one is when they ask me what I had after the hand.. I always reply... "My favorite hand pocket 4's"
      I usually tell them exactly what i have if they ask it during the hand, better yet I show them too afterwards :) . They NEVER believe it and even after you showed like 4 times they still think but this time he's lying. People are so easy to trick...
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Originally posted by Freaky304
      But most players that actually can play play multi-table and don't really pay attention to the chat.
      For now I am obviously targeting players who have already shown responsiveness to the chat... and so far in the limits I'm playing ($2 and $3 Sng's and MTT's) I find a good percentage who are active in the chat.

      On a side note: Personally, I still pay attention to the chat even if I'm multitabling 3 or 4 tables. A lot of peoples' attitudes on the chat give away some valuable info (IMO) about their style of play and tendencies. For that reason, I don't think I ever want to multitable more than 3 tables because I want to be able to read players and adjust to their tendencies... and when in the mood, get them on tilt :P
    • sirilidion
      sirilidion
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 1,575
      don't use it much but I can remember a SnG where one guy kept attacking my BB. I didn't get any hands so it was really announing. when he did it again I had 95o and did if I really had an hard decision to make useing almost all my banktime and folded then saying in the chat " next time I will definatly call " after that he hasn't stolen my BB once :D
    • emmatubb
      emmatubb
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.11.2008 Posts: 2
      I never talk at the table i belive if you are talking you can give to much away (as a beginner that is) even if you look at some peoples typing and the words i think you can tell if there new to the game and the jargon.
      im an advocat of no talk.
    • Abe1919
      Abe1919
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 187
      I love showing bluffs or strong hands,i tend to mix it up and keep them guessing by winning a big hand and showing(for some reason if you win a big hand people get the impression you're a good player and maybe not just lucky) Then straight after i'll look for a bluff and show that too,it can pay off when they wonder what you are holding and give you action ofcourse sometimes you don't want it. Table talk is a big part for me too,you want to make friends with the people who are going to act after you so they'll let raises go,you should be their best friend where as the people who act before me i'd rather keep them at a distance,you can use position to your advantage in more ways than one. (Black hat poker group)
    • Freaky304
      Freaky304
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2008 Posts: 63
      Well actually now you mention it (although i didn't believe in the value I do often use the chat but just to keep occupied when getting a run of bad hands), A few days ago I played a 30 man SnG and the first table this one guy and me knocked off everyone and we where making fun and commenting on eachothers play. But on the final table I made a really bad call and lost alot of my chips. So after losing my chips I entered Push or fold stage too early but he (with the big stack) was seated in front of me and not once raised my blind or called a push. Maybe he didn't have the cards, but when we went HU he did say: I was hoping for a HU against you.

      So maybe talking did influence his game in a way that was profitable for me.

      I have to change my verdict from I don't think so to maybe it could help :)

      but still most times I have to many tables to really use the chat and personally I don't really care about pleasantries or insults said in the chat (so if you try to chat me to tilt I don't think it's gonna work)
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Originally posted by emmatubb
      I never talk at the table i belive if you are talking you can give to much away (as a beginner that is) even if you look at some peoples typing and the words i think you can tell if there new to the game and the jargon.
      im an advocat of no talk.
      Well, as with all things new, a gradual approach is best. If you don't want to give information away when you are facing marginal situations, then try talking only when you have Aces (not everytime of course, not to make it obvious). Aces always gives you confidence to talk!

      In a recent tourney, UTG raised... I had Aces and I had his stack covered. I thought for a sec then said: "hope it's not jacks" then pushed all-in. He called and he did have jacks :D

      I don't know if he would have called anyway, but the main point is to practice!
    • phpps
      phpps
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2008 Posts: 109
      One thing that i like to do is if people do the zzzzz when you are taking too long i tend to purposely take longer especially when they are in the hand. As well if i get the feeling someone is particularly fishy i say ty if i win a hand against them where they called with nothin or just played it absolutely horribly.

      The response about how if someone changes their game play beyond how they regularly play then they are on tilt. It is my belief that you should shift from a LAG game to a TAG and vice versa or sometimes switch it up with more passive play in order to be less predictable, but i would not consider myself on tilt.
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Originally posted by phpps
      One thing that i like to do is if people do the zzzzz when you are taking too long i tend to purposely take longer especially when they are in the hand.
      Ah not cool man... I often see those zzzz... 's appearing at my table, and I understand it's frustrating when I balance on the edge of sitout so often. Still no reason to slowroll yourself though, it's just lame imo :)
    • delete461
      delete461
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      When people fold to my contibets I sometimes say "72o lol" to mess with them.
      Occasionally they play back at my next cbet when I hit the flop. I play nl10 though, I doubt this would work on higher limits

      And if a player starts complaining I usually do everything I can to piss him off even more.
    • TheLastNail
      TheLastNail
      Black
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 6,021
      personally, i doubt table talk has any impact on non-fishy players and i ll get the money from fish anyway so whats the point of distracting them?

      i dont know if this is standard, but what i do, when sb tries to distract me by some remarks like> Will u show me? A set? U re too tight! Loosen up a bit..

      I ignore them the very moment, and mark them in most cases fishy.. bcs some half serious player multitabling has never ever time to type in these sort of things..

      My table chat consists of 2 sentences, which I use very rarely though: "nh" & "ty" :)
    • StyleKsa
      StyleKsa
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2008 Posts: 2
      Originally posted by phpps
      One thing that i like to do is if people do the zzzzz when you are taking too long i tend to purposely take longer especially when they are in the hand. As well if i get the feeling someone is particularly fishy i say ty if i win a hand against them where they called with nothin or just played it absolutely horribly.

      The response about how if someone changes their game play beyond how they regularly play then they are on tilt. It is my belief that you should shift from a LAG game to a TAG and vice versa or sometimes switch it up with more passive play in order to be less predictable, but i would not consider myself on tilt.
      lol, once in a small MTT at the final table there was a guy who would take the max time on every hand usually folding with the occasional all in (>15BBs), I guessed that he was only pushing Premium hands hopeing he would get calls just so his annoying ass could be knocked out. I hated him, he made the tourney into a complete crap shoot cause the blinds, everytime he did this I opened up the player notes and wrote more about how much I hated him.

      he won the tourney... his stupid plan worked and trippled up with AA, and knocked out another player after that.


      On topic though I chat as much as I can to keep myself occupied, usually friendly. And if you put a bad beat on someone and they call you a donk, idiot, etc... it's so easy to put them on tilt by acting like you have no clue what your talking about, "My 76 was a fav to your AK"
    • NRGBlaze
      NRGBlaze
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 604
      Originally posted by emmatubb
      I never talk at the table i belive if you are talking you can give to much away (as a beginner that is) even if you look at some peoples typing and the words i think you can tell if there new to the game and the jargon.
      im an advocat of no talk.
      my opinion exactly
      also usually Im multitabling, so I don't have much time for table talk
      if I do its something like "fold" or "call" or something like that

      had this case with a nitty guy on the BB - Im open-raising from SB with AA
      I said "fold" to him and he called me with 57o AND also called my all-in on the flop (SSS) with a pair of fives :D
    • microtom
      microtom
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 33
      I only use chat at the beginning of the tournaments, and my words are: "You are entering in a world of pain, sons."
      some laugh other cry.
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      I use the chat... I play SNGs so when ever I am on the bubble and the small blind is pushing very aggressively into my BB I wait for them to push... then I type "hmmmmm...." or "kinda loose? this is tempting" etc... and often they tighten right up and I'll get a few extra walks...
    • 1
    • 2