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Questions about using the "Extended charts for playing before the flop"

    • ScottyMeltzer
      Joined: 05.07.2015 Posts: 2
      I am confused about proper play from the blinds in FL Hold-em.

      Specifically I don’t understand how to use the fixed-limit hold-em “Extended charts for playing before the flop” (located at: when playing from the blinds.

      There’s a very clear chart on how to play from the big blind when only one person has raised and no one else has called. There is also a clear chart on how to play from the small blind when one or more players have limped in front of you. But there seems to be no clear guidance on hand ranges when you’re in one of the blinds facing a raise with one or more callers.

      This is not the situation addressed in the chart labelled “Calling/Raising with raises and callers in front of you” because this chart doesn’t include the fact that you can call from the blinds at a discount.

      So far, I have been using the chart labelled “Calling from the small blind without any pre-flop raises” in a modified way to deal with this situation:

      For example: Assume you’re in the BB and UTG opens for raise and the button and SB both call. You’re getting 7:1 to call. These are the exact same pot odds offered in the second column of the chart labelled “Calling from the small blind without any pre-flop raises.” Using this logic and that chart you would call with:

      all pairs,
      any 2 suited cards,
      off-suit connectors down to 65o, plus
      A2o+, K6o+, Q7+, J7o+, & T8+.

      Is this the right way to use those charts? Is this good play?

      This makes sense to me because you’re getting the same pot odds in my example as you would be getting if you were in the SB and there were 2 callers in front of you (7:1), but it doesn’t adjust for the fact that those other players will have stronger hands on average in my example.

      Specifically if you’re in the BB facing an UTG raise + BTN & SB calls, you’d expect your opponents to have a much tighter range than if you were in the SB facing a CO limp + BTN call which is what the chart is directly addressing.

      If you take your opponents' tighter ranges into consideration, you might want to fold all of your weak off-suit Aces in my example even thought you’re getting the same pot-odds that the “Calling from the small blind without any pre-flop raises” chart has you calling with those hands.

      I do understand that every table is different, and that it depends on what kind of player is UTG and who is on the BTN and that you have to adjust your play accordingly, but I’m not asking about that. I’m asking about how to correctly use those particular pre-flop range charts, or if there are any more detailed pre-flop range charts available that address playing from the blinds.

      If this example has confused you as much as it confuses me, maybe we’ll get lucky and there will be someone out there, maybe even one of the people who developed those charts, who can help us.
  • 2 replies
    • ScottyMeltzer
      Joined: 05.07.2015 Posts: 2
      Another, easier question about how to use those charts:

      Suppose you’re in the SB playing $15/30 FL-HE at a table where the SB is $10 (2/3 of the BB instead of 1/2) and a $5 rake. Should you use column 2 instead of column 1 of the “Calling from the small blind without any pre-flop raises” chart when you’ve had only 1 caller?

      I think this would be correct because you’d be getting the same pot odds with 1 limper @ this table's 2/3 blinds (8:1 reduced by the $5 rake to 7:1) that you’d be getting with 2 limpers @ 1/2 blinds (7:1) like the chart is addressing .

      This would also imply that if you're in the SB with 2 limpers in front of you at a $30/$60 table with a $20 SB and a $6 rake, you should play (almost) any hand since you'd be getting almost the same pot odds (10.6:1) that the chart gives you for 4+ limpers (11:1).

      Is this correct? Would you make these modifications if you were playing at these tables?

      Of course the right answer is: "It depends," but again, I'm just asking about using the charts, not about adjustments for your opponent's playing styles or the tilt of the table.
    • Avataren
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,745
      I would not recommend any chart from PokerStrategy. Its all totally outdated. I am personally a 6max player so im not sure if i can help you with your full ring game. But I do have some general ideas about blind play if you want to talk. I am not often on the forums anymore but you can pm me and ill give you my skype.