Something I learned at Pokerstrategy

    • Bokkieboy
      Bokkieboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2008 Posts: 8
      Hey ppl,

      Something I feel like I have to share with a fellow poker player. I always saw myself as a decent player with a lot to learn. My biggest mistake is normally, not that I have no patience, but when I get to low stacked I tend to panic and throw everything away.

      Last night I played bankroll builder tournament on Party poker, which is a qualifier for the $2500 tournament. 3000 entries, I never got good cards once. After 2hrs there were 822 players left and I had 1200 chips left, I took a chance with Qko, and lost 400chips. Blinds were already 400. I waited and passed cards like A8 and so on. Took the gamble when I felt I wanted to go all in and doubled my chips to 1600. The chip leader had 56000 chips, 520 players left. Within half an hour I kid u not I I had 198 000 chips and was chip leader by 100000 chips. At that time 258 players left and it was almost one in the morning here. I made a rough calculation that with a 100 000 chip lead, blinds at 800/1600 , 258 players left, I can take the gamble and log off, and my chips will carry me through to the top 50 that makes the cut for the $2500 tourney. And my calculation was right, I qualified.

      What did I learn?
      1) I have learned to overcome that one thing that always through me away in a lot of tournaments…… Patience.
      2) Never through everything away with one stupid uncalculated move.
      3) Trust your gut feel, one normally knows before hand if you going to loose.
      4) Use what advise is given on this site.

      I think u guys rock at Pokerstrategy.
      Best Regards,
      Bokkieboy
  • 15 replies
    • Alexd10
      Alexd10
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 609
      what a nice post, congrats on the tourney ticket
    • louc
      louc
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2007 Posts: 42

      3) Trust your gut feel, one normally knows before hand if you going to loose.
      So if I'd play against you I would know before hand that you're going to lose?
      If that's the case, do you play cash games too? :rolleyes:
    • Guzu2008
      Guzu2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2008 Posts: 6
      3) Trust your gut feel, one normally knows before hand if you going to loose.

      Best observation in my book. :) )

      I like the way you think lol
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by louc

      3) Trust your gut feel, one normally knows before hand if you going to loose.
      So if I'd play against you I would know before hand that you're going to lose?
      If that's the case, do you play cash games too? :rolleyes:
      He is not totally wrong with this observation.
      Gut feeling is something subconcious which happens by observing players and the game etc. without you properly realizing it conciously. Following it can be profitable.
    • louc
      louc
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2007 Posts: 42
      I wasn't arguing the gut feel part of Bokkieboy's observation. Now that you mentioned it I must admit that I'm not sure if I can make a subconscious decision when there's money involved. Once in a Blue Moon maybe. I prefer analytic approach and controlling subconscious mind.

      What Bokkieboy is trying to say is - if I understand him correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) - that he's got the feel of what the next street will bring. E.g. He is dealt 72o and he knows the flop will be 772 so he's wiling to play the hand. He is dealt AA UTG raised AI and he instantly knows he's aces wouldn't hold up so he folds them.

      Would you classify this as trusting your gut feel?
    • lennert9
      lennert9
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.10.2008 Posts: 278
      I don't think he's saying that, he's saying that when there falls a third club on the river, but you've been holding two pair since the flop, you often just call a guy's bet, although deep down you know that he holds the flush, you just don't want to let go of your two pair.

      Imo, I've had cases where I probably made that decision based on a gut feeling, but sometimes I neglected the gut feeling, and did the logical thing, only to see that the gut feeling was wrong.
    • clicks
      clicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2008 Posts: 61
      Congrats man, it's surprising how far you can do with only a few blinds. People tend to go allin as soon as they've lost a big pot. I laugh at bigstacks who loose 2/3 of their stack on a hand and then go into allin mode every hand. When I'm down I juts keep my cool and pick spots to steal with bad hands and wait for good calling hands, it's works.
    • Snarf85
      Snarf85
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 59
      Originally posted by lennert9
      I don't think he's saying that, he's saying that when there falls a third club on the river, but you've been holding two pair since the flop, you often just call a guy's bet, although deep down you know that he holds the flush, you just don't want to let go of your two pair.
      Yes that's what he was saying. Not that he thinks he's psychic. :rolleyes:
    • louc
      louc
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2007 Posts: 42
      Originally posted by lennert9
      I don't think he's saying that, he's saying that when there falls a third club on the river, but you've been holding two pair since the flop, you often just call a guy's bet, although deep down you know that he holds the flush, you just don't want to let go of your two pair.
      or you're just checking him up to see if you were right … Been there, done that. But if you find the answer to why you think he holds the flush then that's not gut feel related and playing online you normally find it because you are bombarded with far less informations than in live poker game and thus it's easier to notice them all consciously.


      I still think Bokkieboy thinks that he can “feel what the next street will bring”. He then calls it gut feel rather than being psychic. Here's why I think so.

      I had 1200 chips left, I took a chance with KQo, and lost 400chips. Blinds were already 400.
      So, blinds are 200/400 he's probably not in BB as he said that he took a chance. He has 3xBB left and he limped (as he lost only 400) with KQo and checked it down till river. Is that taking a chance? OK, he might have pushed and get a call from short stack but I believe he would say this and add something like and I lost to 72o.

      Now he's left with only 2xBB. His
      biggest mistake is normally, not that I have no patience, but when I get to low stacked I tend to panic and throw everything away.
      and he learned to
      overcome that one thing that always through me away in a lot of tournaments…… Patience.
      Put all this together and you get the reason why he
      waited and passed cards like A8 and so on.
      When in tournaments with only 2xBB left there's really no time to wait for aces. There's also no time to play by the feel like he did
      Took the gamble when I felt I wanted to go all in
      That's probably “gut feel” related.


      Is it possible that he learned those things ( 1) and 3) under What did I learn? In OP) here at PokerStrategy? I wouldn't say so.

      But if that's what works for him then it also works for me. I just want to see Bokkieboy explain what he meant with 1) and 3) and maybe point me to articles where he learned that from.

      BTW Bokkieboy, good luck in $2500 tournament.
    • Jaime001254
      Jaime001254
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 366
      i think ICM is a "PANIC" EV+ approach....
      ICM says... 2bb, late, ANY 2...

      ICM says... 9bb... 72o in SB first in... PUSH

      KQ 3bb... PUSH PUSH PUSH!!!

      o yea i panic so much when im shortie :D
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      Gut feeling is a very stupid thing. I'll tell you why. Take a dice an throw it, ask your guts what number will show up. Then take a list and write down how often you are right. Afterwards calculate the odds for the case that you are right. You will see, there is nothing like gut feeling. Same counts for poker. You just remember those situations where your guts felt right way better then the others. Make a list while playing poker and write down how often you were right, and how often wrong.

      gut feeling is nonsense!
    • Jaime001254
      Jaime001254
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 366
      WHAT!!! gut feeeling is the most important thing in poker!!!!

      i mean, if everyone played by math, how can we ever make some profit!??!?!
    • ehkayforty7
      ehkayforty7
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.05.2008 Posts: 123
      Gut feeling has it's place in poker, no doubt about that.

      I don't mean in the sense that you would just have that feeling your set will peel off on the turn or anything like that, but as someone said with the 2pair vs flush scenario.

      Sometimes you just know that you're beat and someone just drew out on you, but you can't get yourself to fold it. That's the scenario I'm talking about.
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      Originally posted by ehkayforty7
      Gut feeling has it's place in poker, no doubt about that.

      I don't mean in the sense that you would just have that feeling your set will peel off on the turn or anything like that, but as someone said with the 2pair vs flush scenario.

      Sometimes you just know that you're beat and someone just drew out on you, but you can't get yourself to fold it. That's the scenario I'm talking about.
      That has nothing to do with gut feeling - it is all about given information, missing information and math. Nothing else.
    • louc
      louc
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2007 Posts: 42
      Originally posted by TribunCaesar
      Gut feeling is a very stupid thing. I'll tell you why. Take a dice an throw it, ask your guts what number will show up. Then take a list and write down how often you are right. Afterwards calculate the odds for the case that you are right. You will see, there is nothing like gut feeling. Same counts for poker. You just remember those situations where your guts felt right way better then the others. Make a list while playing poker and write down how often you were right, and how often wrong.

      gut feeling is nonsense!
      You're talking about being psychic here. And this has nothing to do with gut feeling which as Dragar explained is

      Gut feeling is something subconcious which happens by observing players and the game etc. without you properly realizing it conciously.
      In online poker there is really not much to observe because you can't see your opponents. So you can easily achieve to notice everything that helps you decide consciously. Live poker is completely different world.
      But still, if you rely on your gut feeling every other hand, whether it's online or live, you are missing some information.