Draws on low limit SH

    • strat9
      strat9
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2008 Posts: 511
      Stoxtrader on his video says to play your draws passively and made hands aggressively on this limit because there is no point in bluffing. I'm assuming this includes semi-bluffs because that is what most bluffs should be. So does this mean to simply call according to odds and outs with every kind of draw because of the crazy looseness of most tables?
  • 9 replies
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hi strat9,

      that is exactly what he meant. :)

      If you pla with stats you can decide by the wts whether you semibluff or not. I wouldn't say that this is limit specfic a the games changed as well over the years.
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      What about the monster draws then?

      FD and OESD at the same time? Still passive until they hit? Don't they hit often enough to play them aggressively?
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Originally posted by Kimber88
      What about the monster draws then?

      FD and OESD at the same time? Still passive until they hit? Don't they hit often enough to play them aggressively?
      Now that are raises for value so you can stillplay these aggressive even against showdownbound opponents. The fold equity you need with good draws (8+ outs) is very low.
    • jmackenzie
      jmackenzie
      Silver
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      Thought id post a link to one the ps articles that concerns this matter goes into a little more detail.

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/fixed-limit/171/
    • strat9
      strat9
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2008 Posts: 511
      So it is still ok to value bet or raise according to equity, regardless of looseness then? Just no (or very little) bluff/semi-bluff?

      What is the difference between raising a draw with equity as a semi-bluff and raising a draw for value? Is the difference strictly in how you play the turn?
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Hey strat9

      Interesting post... given some of the ugly beats I've taken recently from 80/60 VPIP/PFR nutcases I can understand the idea.

      I'm just trying to come to terms with these concepts - so if I'm way off here please be gentle :(

      Isn't raising a draw with equity / raising for value the same thing? You have better than average equity then raise... this is then a raise to maximise value?

      Is this just a question of how often the semi bluff will work? If you are only going to get a fold to a semi bluff, say, 5% of the time (I guess v crazies?), and you're only getting 10:1 pot odds, then play passively. If you think the opponent can lay a hand down better than 10% of the time then bet/raise as a semi bluff? The looseness of the game will determin how often they can lay down. Else play according to equity.

      Is this the general idea?
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Bet or raise accorinding to equity? What equity?

      You raise for value if you have more than AVERAGE equity.
      That is 33%+ equity with 3 opponents, 25%+ equit with 4 opponents etc..

      If you have less than that you need enough FOLD equity to compensate the missing average equity.
      If for example you have 25% equity in a 3-way pot you need 8%+ fold equity to bet or raise profitable.
      That is often the case if you have just a gutshot. But as your fold equit is very low against two+ opponents it's often not worth semibluffing here.

      The quoted article is pretty good. Here the interesting part:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/fixed-limit/171/4/#h2_1

      I hope I got your questions correct else keep asking. :)
    • strat9
      strat9
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.02.2008 Posts: 511
      This may be a ridiculous question, but how do I figure out the fold equity or probability of folding ? Is it HUD stats on opponents, like "Fold Turn" or "Fold Turn to Continuation Bet?"

      Is there something in the articles that I'm missing?
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Originally posted by strat9
      This may be a ridiculous question, but how do I figure out the fold equity or probability of folding ? Is it HUD stats on opponents, like "Fold Turn" or "Fold Turn to Continuation Bet?"

      Is there something in the articles that I'm missing?
      You aren't missing anything. At least I don't know an article about how to calculate your fold equity.
      It's more about seeing how much fold equity you need and then guessing if you can reach it or not. On drawheavy boards you often have lower fold equity than on dry board. If draws are completed by the next cad your fold equity is higher than if a blank comes.
      I can't tell you concrete values for that. :/