column: Poker Actually Is a Game of Skill

  • 26 replies
    • cannell555
      cannell555
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      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Hi viewer88,

      Can you link me to what it is that you can't read? I'm not sure what you mean.

      Regards,
      Stiev
    • vhallee
      vhallee
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      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 1,539
      Hello viewer88,

      I guess you are talking about this column?

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/Poker-Actually-Is-a-Game-of-Skill_13293

      Regards,
      vhallee
    • viewer88
      viewer88
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      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      yes, that's what I mean. All is see is:


      Poker Actually Is a Game of Skill
      Published on 12 Dec 08 18:04 by vhallee

      In this column I tried to give my thoughts on the recent events that damaged the reputation of poker, whether it is the online or live genre. Is poker actually gambling or strategy? You decide.
    • andyb43
      andyb43
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      Joined: 23.07.2008 Posts: 903
      Originally posted by viewer88
      yes, that's what I mean. All is see is:


      Poker Actually Is a Game of Skill
      Published on 12 Dec 08 18:04 by vhallee

      In this column I tried to give my thoughts on the recent events that damaged the reputation of poker, whether it is the online or live genre. Is poker actually gambling or strategy? You decide.

      Shortest articlte ever........................this all I see as well
    • Snarf85
      Snarf85
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      Joined: 19.10.2008 Posts: 59
      Yep that's all I see as well. I noticed that yesterday when I tried to read it.
    • timukasr
      timukasr
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      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      How come it has comments O.o
    • cannell555
      cannell555
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      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      I see the whole thing

      Maybe vhallee knows why?
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
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      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      I also see it all.... I'm using firefox if it changes anything :P
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
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      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Very strange - I can also see the whole thing and the settings are correct. Maybe the Youtube links at the bottom mess it up on other browsers?

      Try firefox or read below ;)


      I guess everyone knows by now about the UIGEA, the Kentucky case, the 60 Minutes story, the Netherlands issue and so on. They are all against the concept of poker basically, as they consider it to be a game of luck, a game that players can wrongfully exploit, a game that causes gambling addiction and the list goes on.

      However, this is usually the script we get from anyone who has not been involved with poker be it online, at the casinos/special events or simply at home, with friends. They consider that the luck factor is too great, making skill look like an insignificant issue. If that would be the case, then why do we have almost the same players winning the major events?

      If the Kentucky judge would be right, then Doyle Brunson with his 10 WSOP bracelets is one of the luckiest men on the planet and he should simply play the lottery instead of taking part in all those poker tournaments. Same thing can be said about Daniel Negreanu, whose amazing reads still make me think he's not from Earth.

      The problem is that the law looks at poker from only one perspective: a pair of aces beats a pair of kings, so the player who is lucky enough to have the aces will win. Poker is so much more than that and everyone who plays it knows this. Concepts like bluffing, reading, or even human psychology.

      Poker is not really about having the best hand, but more about playing your opponents: there are cases when you want them to think you have a good hand when you don't, so you can steal some pots and there are cases when you want to seem weak so you can get more money from them. This is not gambling anymore – it's strategy. It's the best player, not the best hand, that wins.

      If we take a look at the poker pros nowadays, we see that they are also well educated people, with most of them specialized in Math-related areas; it is obviously not a coincidence, since poker is a game of odds, probabilities and statistics. These people are good with numbers and that helped them in their game – where is the luck in this?

      Sure, since poker is a game of incomplete information, luck can occur – your aces can lose to a pair of deuces that later morph into a set, for example. But in the long run, you will win – that's what statistics are for. Actually, the fact that poker relies on collecting as much information as possible from your opponent makes it that much more strategic and interesting at the same time: try having a game between a player who read poker strategies from books, the Internet or any other reliable source and a player who just knows the rules. No matter how much luck the second player has, the one who studied strategies wins in the long run. If this weren't the case, books about poker strategies would not be written, poker professionals would not give advices and even our site would not be alive. Just the fact that you are reading this column on this site is an extra proof that poker is indeed a game of skill and not luck.

      I leave you now with some poker hands from professionals and let you decided if it's only luck or pure skill:
    • cannell555
      cannell555
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      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Yes, I am also using firefox.

      I have just opened it with internet explorer and it wont appear.
    • louc
      louc
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      Joined: 21.05.2007 Posts: 42
      So there are still people using IE? :rolleyes:

      Now to the topic.
      All in all it's a very good column but there are some things that bothers me.

      Is poker actually gambling or strategy?
      So you're suggesting that poker is not gambling?

      a game of luck, a game that players can wrongfully exploit
      I don't understand this. Can you explain it please?

      Sure, since poker is a game of incomplete information, luck can occur – your aces can lose to a pair of deuces that later morph into a set, for example.
      If your aces lose against pair of deuces that's not because poker is a game of incomplete information, that's because deuces will win against aces in like 20%. And luck doesn't occur because poker is a game of incomplete information. The only thing that's relevant for poker being a game of incomplete information is that you can't see your opponents hole cards (unless they are clumsy or you're playing with “super account” at Absolute Poker :evil: ).
    • adrian4500
      adrian4500
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      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 22
      around 80% of people use IE, however the younger generations go away from it
    • rowzee
      rowzee
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      Joined: 24.08.2008 Posts: 151
      Doesn't work on Opera as well.
    • Puciek
      Puciek
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      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 657
      Originally posted by adrian4500
      around 80% of people use IE, however the younger generations go away from it
      Very old data, IE got around 55-65% of market and still going down.
    • thunderbird56
      thunderbird56
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      Joined: 02.12.2007 Posts: 2,179
      This piece of news is broken on IE7 as well.
    • vhallee
      vhallee
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      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 1,539
      http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/111811

      i haven't used IE in like 5 years or so. imo it is the worst browser ever but it's got the advantage that it comes with windows and some people don't switch out of habit or laziness :P
    • louc
      louc
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      Joined: 21.05.2007 Posts: 42
      @vhallee
      In case you missed this post could you please read it and reply?

      I'll appreciate any kind and type of reply even "I don't have time for this s**t".

      I hope I'm not asking too much.

      Terminator voice: I'll be back! :D
    • louc
      louc
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      Joined: 21.05.2007 Posts: 42
      I'm back and still waiting.
    • vhallee
      vhallee
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      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 1,539
      Originally posted by louc
      I'm back and still waiting.
      thanks for your patience and sorry i did not have time to reply sooner.

      1. yes, I suggest that poker is not gambling. With that statement I meant to say that there are more factors that have a more powerful impact on the game than luck itself. Sure, luck should not be ignored but it's also something that I would not rely on.

      2. There I meant that a player can exploit poker through the 'luck factor' and think he will have an edge on others but he is wrong because he will only lose in the long run. I may have used the wrong words to express that, but I basically said that luck can only help you in the beginning and after that it's something less important.

      3. Well, by that I meant that aces can lose to deuces because of the incomplete information. We all know that two aces beat two deuces, right? But your confidence in those aces can also make you lose in case another deuce comes into play. Other than that your post was definitely good and I realized I didn't explain some things enough, which lead to misunderstandings or even errors from my part. Thanks for the feedback :)
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