FTP account closed. Prohibited softwares.

    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Hey all, today my account was closed by FTP and my bankroll might be confiscated by them on the grounds of "use of prohibited software".

      I am very worried, since they say that the use of programmes such as the Elephant and Equilator during play is NOT ALLOWED and offer grounds for account closure and bankroll confiscation.

      I am completely at loss. Though I have used the elephant a few times, I still play NL10 and do not play with stats. I often use the equilator though, while being online, though not to assist me with game decisions as it is virtually impossible to use it while playing 8 to 10 tables. I was never aware that they could close my account just for running the Equilator while being online, can they even know that? If anyone knows anything about this, please share.

      Here is a quote from the e-mail they sent me:

      "Please be advised that Full Tilt Security has temporarily suspended your Full Tilt Poker account, pending a full review.

      Automated systems have discovered indicators of possible account misuse, which violates the Full Tilt Poker Site Terms and End User License Agreement.

      Specifically, your account is under investigation for the use of prohibited software. Please see the information below regarding our policies on prohibited programs:

      http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/prohibited_programs

      More information on prohibited programs can be found in the Full Tilt Poker Site Terms and EULA:

      http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/site-terms
      http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/end_user_license_agreement

      To be clear, players on Full Tilt Poker must make their own decisions, without advice or support from software programs or algorithms. Full Tilt Poker exercises a zero-tolerance policy on the use these prohibited programs. Using such software is grounds for immediate closure of the account and forfeiture of account funds. (100% of confiscated funds are distributed back to the victims of the cheating).

      1. The following types of programs are not acceptable under any circumstances:

      * Automated poker-playing programs capable of participating in online poker games
      * Shared hand history databases, including subscription services, and the exchange of personal databases

      2. The following types of programs are not permitted during play:

      * Programs that make recommendations on what to do in the current hand (e.g. fold, call, raise)
      * Programs that provide assistance in making poker decisions and confer an unfair advantage over opponents

      3. The following types of programs may not be allowed during play, depending on their specific use:

      * Subscription services that provide extra information about opponents, such as tournament histories and statistics
      * Programs that could be used for collusion between players
      * Programs that provide or assist in table selection
      * Poker calculators that compute poker probabilities or hand values
      * Other programs that confer an unfair advantage to the user

      4. Notwithstanding the above, the following types of programs are currently permitted:

      * Database programs for the analysis of personal hand histories (i.e. hands in which the player is dealt cards)
      * Programs that display statistical information taken from the player's personal hand histories
      * Programs that assist in learning the skills of poker, provided that they are not used during play

      Full Tilt Poker is committed to maintaining the fairest poker games available anywhere. We do not permit or condone any conduct that could diminish the integrity of our games. Misuse of such programs can result in a permanent loss of playing privileges, and possible forfeiture of account funds, depending on the severity of the offense."
  • 60 replies
    • Puciek
      Puciek
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 657
      Well you clearly did break the rule, so i don't see why you are suprised about fact that your account was closed.
      This situation didn't happend if you would actualy read that earlier, but who bother reading that stuff before you sign it, right ?
    • Chazza
      Chazza
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2007 Posts: 118
      Hey,

      From the sounds of that, elephant is not your problem.

      4. Notwithstanding the above, the following types of programs are currently permitted:

      * Database programs for the analysis of personal hand histories (i.e. hands in which the player is dealt cards)
      * Programs that display statistical information taken from the player's personal hand histories
      * Programs that assist in learning the skills of poker, provided that they are not used during play


      Elephant is one of these. However running equilator or ICM software may be an issue. It seems that that may be an unfair advantage.

      I do doubt though that your high stakes winnings ;) will be taken so far. I think you will be given a warning and just don't run the software while playing.

      It may also be that you have played super long seesions with no toilet breaks and they think you're a bot. Who knows? Hope it all works out for you!!

      Aaron
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hello dandycal,

      Sorry to hear about this. The Elephant should not be a problem as it is PokerTracking software that is allowed. The Equilator- just like PokerStove should also not be a problem since it does not provide you with "yes or no" decisions, but simply gives you Equity of different hands against different ranges and is more useful for general calculations than actual liveplay decision making. If these two are the only two problems you have been using you should have no problem having your account re-activated.

      More problematic is the running of various ICM software, sites such as Sharkscope or other tracking sites, and other software.

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • Puciek
      Puciek
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 657
      Actualy soy
      Poker calculators that compute poker probabilities or hand values
      also
      Programs that provide assistance in making poker decisions and confer an unfair advantage over opponents
      I would say that equilator fits that condition.
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      More problematic is the running of various ICM software, sites such as Sharkscope or other tracking sites, and other software.


      Sharkscope is not forbidden on full tilt... at least I hope it ain't... since I'm always on that site while playing :)

      Atleast the ICM trainer of pokerstrategy shouldn't be the problem either since well I've played with it millions of times while playing... Same with at least the older version of the equaliator although the new version might still be not allowed by full tilt (pokerstrategy should check into that matter)...

      Also if sng wiz is on that ban list please inform me.. I know it's banned at stars and you get up that nice window telling you to turn it off :) ... But I've used it bunch of times while playing few sng's on full tilt to analyze my hands... it doesn't help me at all since I'm just analyzing hands I already made my decision in to not make the same mistake again or whatever :)
    • suvalgysiu
      suvalgysiu
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.06.2007 Posts: 307
      3. The following types of programs may not be allowed during play, depending on their specific use:

      * Subscription services that provide extra information about opponents, such as tournament histories and statistics
      Looks like sharkscope is banned.

      Oh and lol at

      * Programs that could be used for collusion between players
      Guess i can't use skype anymore :D
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Originally posted by Puciek
      Actualy soy
      Poker calculators that compute poker probabilities or hand values
      also
      Programs that provide assistance in making poker decisions and confer an unfair advantage over opponents
      I would say that equilator fits that condition.
      Well yes and no.

      Of course the Equilator fits the description of a tool that computes probabilities - but it is not designed to actually do so during game play. Even if you are only playing 1 table it would be very hard to use the Equilator in a fashion that will actually help you make live decisions without timing out. It is designed to let players evaluate their play in hindsight and to actually prepare for sessions.

      There is however software which feeds hands - while they are being played - into the software and shows hand rankings or even helps compute probabilities of draws hitting (PokerOffice did/does this afaik). I believe that is the kind of software that is really being talked about in this clause.

      Since a lot of players have been being banned - I would only suggest to for the moment not use any sort of program - especially none that could fit the descriptions.

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Originally posted by Hlynkinn
      More problematic is the running of various ICM software, sites such as Sharkscope or other tracking sites, and other software.


      Sharkscope is not forbidden on full tilt... at least I hope it ain't... since I'm always on that site while playing :)

      Atleast the ICM trainer of pokerstrategy shouldn't be the problem either since well I've played with it millions of times while playing... Same with at least the older version of the equaliator although the new version might still be not allowed by full tilt (pokerstrategy should check into that matter)...

      Also if sng wiz is on that ban list please inform me.. I know it's banned at stars and you get up that nice window telling you to turn it off :) ... But I've used it bunch of times while playing few sng's on full tilt to analyze my hands... it doesn't help me at all since I'm just analyzing hands I already made my decision in to not make the same mistake again or whatever :)
      Sharkscope - just as any other website which data-mines all played games - seems to be banned. I would also be careful with SNG Wizard being active while playing.

      We will contact Full Tilt and hopefully get some clarity on the situation, but for the moment its better to be safe than sorry.

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Pokerstars has a link which shows exactly which software is allowed

      And exactly which software is banned.

      It should be very similar to Full Tilt.

      Here is the link.

      http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/

      Full Tilt should have this exact type of list IMO.
    • Puciek
      Puciek
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 657
      This is not full list but only examples (on pokerstars) so this is not only software banned.
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      Originally posted by 8979687
      Pokerstars has a link which shows exactly which software is allowed

      And exactly which software is banned.

      It should be very similar to Full Tilt.

      Here is the link.

      http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/

      Full Tilt should have this exact type of list IMO.
      they should but they don't show any list like this... also if your running a banned tool while playing on pokerstars they let you know and close the tool automaticly in 10 sec... which is obv. way smarter than closing your account for using a tool you didn't even know was banned...

      Full Tilt always surprises me by their stupid approach to stuff like this... They seriously have no idea what they're doing compared to pokerstars :(
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Full Tilt doesn't offer such detailed information about forbiden software: http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/prohibited_programs.php


      It seems also that "mining" for stats is not allowed by fulltilt, even though you can mine with the Elephant itself in Full Tilt's tables even if you are not seated. Here is a quote from their regulations:

      4.4 EXTERNAL PLAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS (EPAs).

      Full Tilt Poker prohibits external player assistance programs (EPA programs) which are designed to provide an "unfair advantage" to players. Full Tilt Poker defines external to mean computer software (other than the Full Tilt Poker game client provided by Full Tilt Poker), and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g., web sites and subscription services). Full Tilt Poker defines an "unfair advantage" as a User accessing or compiling information on other players beyond that which the User has personally observed through the User's own game play.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      they should but they don't show any list like this... also if your running a banned tool while playing on pokerstars they let you know and close the tool automaticly in 10 sec... which is obv. way smarter than closing your account for using a tool you didn't even know was banned... Full Tilt always surprises me by their stupid approach to stuff like this... They seriously have no idea what they're doing compared to pokerstars


      Agree, I now have no idea about software like tournament indicator, because it has pot odds and win odds ( not accurate at all btw but if equilator is not allowed this shouldn't be allowed eather )
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      @ dandycal when you agree with the terms of service at almost every poker platform you agree with not datamining... Datamining is forbidden on at least full tilt and pokerstars and has been for a while
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Tournament indicator is alloud because it does not advise you
      on what move to make. It does not say push now or raise now.

      It just shows you your hand rank and your odds and it keeps
      track of vpip etc but only while your playing or observing.
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      Hey... I got the exact same email on Monday night. They still haven't got back to me. I too don't have a clue on why they have done this. I have used sites like tableratings, but only to check things out. Also I play NL10 and tableratings only mines NL50 and up.
      My only other explanation for this is msn messenger. None of my friends on there play poker so I don't see the problem.
      I sent them an email back explaining these thing and no I'm here waiting...probably for my account to be closed 4 no reason. And also how do they even investigate this? They can't hack you PC and search for programs so they have only got hand historys and play data to go on.
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      It seems this has happened to many people. The SSS coach Ingol Max also said his FTP account was closed and the Head Admin SoyCd said other pokerstrategy students have reported a similar situation. He said he contacted FTP himself. But I haven't heard any news yet.

      It is really weird indeed, I didn't use anything while playing online, not even MSN. I only used the Elephant a couple of times a while ago.

      I just hope they can fix this soon, I'm losing points to qualify for the Iron Man.
    • bkbart
      bkbart
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2007 Posts: 327
      Originally posted by kingdippy2008
      They can't hack you PC and search for programs so they have only got hand historys and play data to go on.

      Actually they can you agree to it when you sign up
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      For those who might be in the same situation as me, an hour ago FTP contacted me by mail. They banned me from their casino and shut down my account permanently on the grounds of "fraud" and "use of ilegal softwares". As I said, I have never used anything except the Elephant and the Equilator. It seems this is suddenly happen to many others in FTP. I hope it's not your case!