2NL: when to limp with pairs for set mining?

    • gabl136
      gabl136
      Basic
      Joined: 20.11.2015 Posts: 19
      When should i limp with pocket pairs for set mining? And how much should I call if someone raises? Presumably the looser /worse the player is and the more he is calling after the flop, more often i should call?

      What are the conditions for not limping with small pocket pairs for set mining? I get it that more aggressive players are behind me less I should limp, but can someone whos a solid winner at 2NL tell me his specific conditions?!

      Thanks
  • 6 replies
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 27,120
      First in I would always raise with pocket pairs or fold right away, but that depends on with position we are playing.
      I don't know if you're familiar with the Call20 rule for calling for set value, but it means you have a change of winning at least 20 times if you call for set value. Let's said you're on the button with 22 and the UTG player is raising to 3bb. Than the effective stack should be at least 60bb if you can profitable call here, but that's in a cash game with a 100bb starting stack no problem.

      I also recommend checking the threads No Limit Beginners course with confidant91 and No limit Starter Course with LemOn36 out. There you can find a lot of information what a beginner needs to know.

      If you have more questions about set mining don't hesitate to ask it.

      Best regards,
      SDK1987
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 5,332
      I never limp. Also if someone limps before me I raise bigger. I think there is no reason to limp with pairs. Basically we can call a normal 3bb or 4bb open raise with any pocket pair to set mine.
    • MrPink578
      MrPink578
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.11.2015 Posts: 530
      I rarely ever limp with small-mid pocket pairs. If I do limp with them, I usually do it from early position. But you should pretty much always raise with a pocket pair regardless of position.
    • gabl136
      gabl136
      Basic
      Joined: 20.11.2015 Posts: 19
      I guess i should have been more specific. I was asking for early position. even more specifically UTG, UTG+1 (22-66), MP1, MP2 (22-44), HJ, CO and BTN i always raise all pairs.
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 5,332
      I would say it is player dependent whether you want to open 22-55 from early position or not. If you want to open those, raise, do not limp.
    • iSoOwnYou
      iSoOwnYou
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2014 Posts: 637
      The chances of flopping a set a little better than 8:1 against you flopping it. You never know your exact equity so we can settle on 8:1 for the purposes of figuring out when you should be calling with a pair pre-flop.

      As others have said, I'd recommend always open raising your pocket pairs, not only do you gain some pre-flop initiative but you also disguise the strength of your hand somewhat ( you could have AA KK, or JK or 22) if you limp you are virtually telling everyone you have a small pocket pair.

      So using the 8:1 against math, we know that every 9 times you call preflop with a pocket pair, on average you will flop a set just once. Eight times you will not improve your holding on the flop.

      However you will not always get paid off when you hit your set so you need to to call tighter than simply looking to get it in with effective stacks of 8x the bet you called. If you are playing a weak player, and are reasonably confident they have a fairly good hand (they are raising from EP, and are tighter from EP than LP) then you can call with about 12:1 odds I would say.

      If you are out of position, you might want to increase this however as your chances of getting stacks in by the river diminish even more. If you are playing a very good player that can fold AA to post flop agression, and read your hand, you will want to play with more even greater implied odds to compensate for the times you hit it and don't win any extra money.

      Finally I would make sure the effective stack is always 100bb deep (or very close to).

      So as a rule of thumb I'd say always make sure you have 12:1 implied odds. But also increase this depending on the strength of your opponent, the likely strength or weakness of their holding, and your position.

      Good luck!