Beginner PLO 6-max cash

    • SeacombeSwag
      SeacombeSwag
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2015 Posts: 14
      Hi guys :)

      I've been exclusively a NLHE player for about 2 years now, and to be honest I'm just bored of it. Playing mostly cash online, I had a good but not great win rate and it just feels sort of algorithmic now. I tried to push myself to improve to reach the level where it can be a part time job for me but fields are just too strong and I couldn't hold my interest, the leap is just so big (for me anyway). Recently I started looking into PLO, and I immediately fell in love with the game. The action is so much more intense, the fields seem a lot weaker, a lot more of the game (from a very beginner perspective) seems to be based around board textures and picking spots rather than just making the hand and going with it. There's just one problem - I suck. I've had a few days where I've won more than I've ever won playing NLHE and then lost it all the next day. I know PLO is a very swingy game but I'm determined to not blame that - my game is absolutely full of leaks and I want to find them.
      So my questions are these, 1) What literature should I be reading? I've read a good amount of NLHE literature because there seems to be an abundance but not sure what I should be looking for for PLO.
      2) What other mediums should I be using to improve my game? Are there any good online training videos, forums, chat groups for PLO etc that I should be looking to?
      3) What software should I be using during my games? I'm looking primarily to multi table 6max PLO cash, maybe experiment with a bit of tournament play but for the most part cash.
      4) Am I right to be looking to 6max cash? Full ring PLO just sounds a bit too much and I don't really feel like adding to the already very swingy nature of PLO by playing tournament is sensible.
      5) Is there anyone else in a similar situation to me? I'd love to get in touch and have people to talk about hands with from someone at my own level to learn the game together. I have a group of people who I discuss NLHE with but they really don't understand me wanting to go a PLO way, at the moment I don't have anybody who I talk to who has any PLO interest whatsoever.
      6) Is any of what I've said in this post just fundamentally wrong? All of my PLO "knowledge" at the moment is just my logic more than anything, feel free to completely rip it apart if its wrong. I'm here to learn not have my ego cushioned :D

      Sorry for the long post guys, any help on any of the questions would be most appreciated :)
  • 17 replies
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,646
      1) PLO From the Scratch is free and pretty good stuff. Yeah it's a bit old, but it has good fundamentals.

      2) The more you discuss about PLO the more you learn. Check out PokerStrategy videos, I filtered upto Gold status those for you. Most of beginner stuff is Silver which shouldn't be that hard to accomplish. We have this PLO forum too. It has been a bit quiet, but feel free to fire it up. :)

      3) HUD is nice, doesn't really matter if you use HEM2 or PT4. Once you feel like really going for PLO and you understand the basics, PokerJuice is really, REALLY good software to improve your game.

      4) Fullring PLO is pretty much dead, and besides it's boring. :D PLO Tournaments are often quite soft, as god PLO players play mostly cash games. The prolem is the lack of volume, it's hard to grind PLO Tournaments with good volume.

      5) We have had PLO Skype groups few times. They always start with really active members but then they slowly die. That is the nature of Skype groups. I would suggest that you call for others in the Study Group thread.

      6) Everything is ok. :)
    • nsavov
      nsavov
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 802
      Hello, welcome and congrats on the blog!

      Some tips to get more people interested:
      - Shorter posts
      - Maybe put some stuff in Spoliers - it looks way more tidy that way
      - Pictures. Graph, women, funny stuff etc.

      I see you have some questions, so I suggest you edit your posts so we see the questions better. :f_thumbsup:
      1) Try PLO from Scratch - Donkr from Bugs
      2) The coaches here - Skodljivec and Kyyberi have good videos but most of them are Silver. Kyyberi has some clips in youtube also :f_thumbsup:
      3) Omaha Manager. Primarily for game evaluation. The stats of players can be easily seen from other free programs like the free version of Jivaro - it only shows VPIP/PFR/AF but you can upload interesting hands easily with a simple button click. :f_biggrin:
      4) Play whatever on the micros, but you should focus on 6max strategy if you want to climb up
      5) Im running enbeliavably unlucky at PLO so far and struggle alot with the mindset so its unlikely to make the change from NL soon
      6) Seems fine. Cheers :f_drink:
    • T3rMiT3
      T3rMiT3
      Silver
      Joined: 29.02.2008 Posts: 3,328
      Hello,

      I want to learn this game too and have already read some chapters from PLO from scratch but I want to read them again a few more times. At what limit are you planning to start?
      I suck at PLO too so I plan to start with normal tables 6max PLO2.

      Good luck!
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,646
      PLO2 is a bit different from PLO10 or PLO25. When playing in PLO2 I strongly advice to focus on value betting and forget barreling bluffs. Play with strong ranges and make money by valuebetting when you hit the board.
    • SeacombeSwag
      SeacombeSwag
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2015 Posts: 14
      Thanks guys! All very useful info :)
    • SeacombeSwag
      SeacombeSwag
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2015 Posts: 14
      Originally posted by T3rMiT3
      Hello,

      I want to learn this game too and have already read some chapters from PLO from scratch but I want to read them again a few more times. At what limit are you planning to start?
      I suck at PLO too so I plan to start with normal tables 6max PLO2.

      Good luck!
      Hey! PLO2 seems the sensible place to start I agree so I've started there on Stars, field seems generally weaker than the same limits playing NLHE, good starting point imo
    • Rhodriguez
      Rhodriguez
      Silver
      Joined: 01.10.2006 Posts: 324
      And a cordial welcome from me too! So I can be happy to leave the PLO2-pool towards PLO5 very soon - when I have to fear two upcoming sharks very soon.

      my first advice so far would be:
      give your opponents more credit!
      they may be weak but aren't clueless. The average player doesn't play PLO by accident.

      good luck to both of you!
      and hopefully we can breath life into this forum.
    • T3rMiT3
      T3rMiT3
      Silver
      Joined: 29.02.2008 Posts: 3,328
      Originally posted by Rhodriguez
      And a cordial welcome from me too! So I can be happy to leave the PLO2-pool towards PLO5 very soon - when I have to fear two upcoming sharks very soon.

      my first advice so far would be:
      give your opponents more credit!
      they may be weak but aren't clueless. The average player doesn't play PLO by accident.

      good luck to both of you!
      and hopefully we can breath life into this forum.
      I thought you play only zoom tables. :f_rolleyes: :f_biggrin:
      Good luck to you too!
    • reteprock
      reteprock
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.01.2016 Posts: 1
      Hi,
      I'm down for talking plo hands through skype regulary.
      PM me if interested
      Peter
    • ZakYoun270
      ZakYoun270
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.12.2015 Posts: 95
      Let me give you some advice for transitioning between NLHE and PLO. Actually they are very similar, and you will discover this as you go on. The first thing to recognize, and I'm talking about the Stars .05/.10 - /.5/1 pools here, is that the population is very soft. VPIPs are very high, and you have a lot more 'superwhale' style players who are practically giving their money away.

      Tip #1 : Just play 1 table.

      It's very important when you are playing poker to be very focused. You want to minimize distractions so that you can become totally absorbed in the activity. Your brain cannot actually multi-task, what it does is switch from one process to another, and there is a great loss (transaction cost) associated with switching.

      Tip #2 : Just play heads up

      One tabling 6 max can be a bit dull, especially if you are card dead or the game is tough. But heads up against a fish, on the other hand, is a very interesting activity. Now you have to be adapting and the game is very fast and also because you are playing 200+ hands / hr it's quite profitable if you are winning.

      Now, ultimately you are going to have to play both 6 max (more like 3 or 4, usually the best games are 2 or 3 handed, rarely do you find a really amazing 6 handed game) and heads up.

      The other thing about just 1 tabling, is that this really offers you an opportunity to grow as a player, because you can take your time and think about decisions and really challenge your own mental paradigms.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,646
      Making money in headsup requires more skill than making money in 6max. And HU tables are not available/profitable below PLO50.

      I would say that HE and PLO are very different. They have similar structure and a lot of similarities, but also a lot of differences. Relative hand strength is one of the biggest differences. Also common problem is the fact that there are a lot of draws in PLO. Therefore some basic math is required when playing with draws or against them.

      I wouldn't tell someone that it is a must to play one table. Everyone should find their own optimal number of tables. It depends on their goals and poker skills. Idea behind being able to multitable is to have skills at the level of automation (unconscious competence).
    • ZakYoun270
      ZakYoun270
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.12.2015 Posts: 95
      HU tables are not available above 50 PLO either, but you can still play HU just do so at 6 max table. Obviously regs will jump in, but sometimes you get a few hundred hands alone, especially if you are hu on like a 9 max table and all the regs look only for 6 max. Hu against a fish is obviously a lot easier to beat than 6 max since it is a tremendously less complicated situation. You are only concerned with 1 psychology rather than 5. that's why pokerstars got rid of the hu tables, because the fish just get slaughtered because hu vs fish is so ez. so they want all the play at 6 max or zoom where it is 5 regs for a fish and everyone is break even or slight winner. what a joke.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,646
      Why should you sit in the table with 4 regs?
    • DamoSk
      DamoSk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2011 Posts: 35
      Great thread. I have dabbled with PLO on and off for about a year, mainly because of the unibet PLO tickets that have been offered over recent months and have done pretty well. On Saturday I played my first PLO tournament, with a field of 35 and won it. I picked my spots to play and felt pretty confident. I think playing good hands without too much bluffing is the way to play. I was very pleased with my efforts. I intend to do a bit more studying before I play my next game to learn from how I played on Saturday. I dabbled in a free plo8 last night and got to last 18 out of 60, and was amazed how different a game PLO8 is from PLO. Think I will stick to,plo for now!
    • axppp
      axppp
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2009 Posts: 45
      great read guys, I have been thinking of learning how to play properly and with the information here i will be doing it in the next few weeks

      thanks once again
    • mathkid
      mathkid
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2013 Posts: 26
      I pretty much couldn't agree more with this statement. Skill comes in at PLO10 for sure but at PLO2 players still have the NL Holdem mindset...IMO.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,646
      Skill is required in PLO2 to make profit also. In any poker format and stakes it takes skill to adapt to your opponents. In PLO2 general population has different tendencies than in PLO10 so you need a different gameplan to make money.