Omaha 3bet range

    • benibanaani123
      benibanaani123
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2011 Posts: 82
      Hello, im asking opinions of omaha 3bet ranges.
      I have noticed that when you move up stakes there are more 3bet ?
  • 19 replies
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Didn't see that you edited the post, now there is a simple question to answer. :) Time to kick PLO forum alive!

      As with most poker formats, the aggression goes up when you move to higher stakes. That makes sense, as in lower levels there are tons of passive players that just give you tons of value and bluffing isn't that profitable (as they like to call with a lot of stuff). But when average player becomes better, your pure value poker isn't going to work anymore. You have to find an edge over them somehow. And aggression is the next step.

      Being one dimensional doesn't work against players that can recognize and abuse it. Whether you are super passive or super aggressive, any decent player can exploit you. So you have to be unpredictable. And the only way is to have a balance between passiveness and aggression. At lower stakes the passivity is pretty much maxed, so the only way is to gain balance with aggression.

      Once 3betting becomes more of a "norm" instead of "expert play", you need to have deception (=balance) in it too. That's why there is a lot more 3betting/4betting going on at higher stakes.

      BUT!!!!!!
      This doesn't mean you shouldn't 3bet at micros. You can make a lot of profit by widening your 3bet range, just make sure it is still strong. The reason why players don't do it is that they don't know (=they haven't studied) how to do it.
    • benibanaani123
      benibanaani123
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2011 Posts: 82
      People overplay AAxx hands very often when the pot is multiway or just big and example when I hit 8910J hand or 5566 hand I get villains whole stack. I like to 3bet and sometimes coldcall 4bet for bigger pots. I never insta pot AA hand on dangerous flop, plo2-50 I see AA overplay much ! When I hava AAxx hand I preflop go All-in but on flop that didnt help me I play it carefully !
      Make any sense ?:f_cool:
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      You need to get familiar with the math. If SPR is 1 or lower you have to stack off with Aces against one player. Cold calling 4bets with 100bb stack is rarely a good option.
    • benibanaani123
      benibanaani123
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2011 Posts: 82
      What is SPR :D ? Multiway pots 3-4 people cold calling 4 bet with 10JQK, 5566, 1010QQ, JJ22 is not good ?
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      SPR = Stack to Pot Ratio. Pretty important concept in PLO. The thing is that once you bet and someone raises, you often have the equity to call. You don't even have to make profit with the call, it's enough if you lose less than you would lose by folding. But when you cold call, you have to make profit in the long run (as you haven't invested anything to the pot). Dryish double pairs are often close to breakeven, depending on opponents. You will hit set 1/4 times but with small pairs you will get set vs set often when the money goes in. Or opponent has 30-50% equity. KQJT is kind of hand that your flush draws might be dominated and without flush draws often when the money goes in opponent has goodish equity versus you.

      Here are some imaginary numbers:

      You call with JJ22, investing $4 preflop. You need to hit the set to continue on the flop, and you will hit it 25% of the times (1/4). So to justify the $4 investment, you need to win at least $16 on average when you hit the set. You are with 2 other players on the flop, pot is $12. Now you do hit the set. Some of the times 4bettor cbets and fold. Sometime he cbets and stacks off. Sometimes the other player stacks off, and sometimes they both fold. When they check-fold, you didn't win enough and your preflop call ended to be -EV. When you stack off versus better set, your preflop call was hugely -EV. When someone cbets $6 or $8 and folds, you make few dollars profit. When they stack off with big draw, you are something like 60/40 favorite meaning your expected value isn't the full pot but slightly over half of it.

      When you combine all of this, it shows that on average you don't make a lot of profit when you do hit the set. And to justify the preflop call, you need to make profit. There are situations where cold calling 4bets is profitable, and then there are situations where it's not. With good hands it's often huge variance for small profit/losses. And most of the players have no idea if their cold call is even profitable or not.
    • benibanaani123
      benibanaani123
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      Joined: 13.02.2011 Posts: 82
      Thank you
    • SeagalSteven
      SeagalSteven
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      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 506
      Spr means how many pots you have behind

      Pot is 4€, you've 4€ behind = spr 1
      Pot is 4€,you've 8€ behind = spr 2
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      We don't have Finnish content anymore. There is Finnish Corner in forum, but it's a bit inactive. http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/board.php?boardid=1665
    • benibanaani123
      benibanaani123
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2011 Posts: 82
      Okay:f_cool: So when the SPR 1 I do push or fold ? SPR 2 push or fold ?
      Do you still coach private 2-50PLO kyyberi ?
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Yes I do coach. It's impossible to say what you should always do, as it always depends. But if you 4bet (or 3 or 5bet) aces and get an SPR 1 or lower, you can shove any flop against one player and the opponent can't exploit that he knows you have aces.
    • benibanaani123
      benibanaani123
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.02.2011 Posts: 82
      Okay, so im intrested of your private coaching end of february. Do I need to send private message or how this proceed ?
      Im not sure yet wich package I will buy your price list.
      I need help on pokertracker, betsizing and omaha , could you help on these ? Coaching is Finnish ?
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      We can talk in Finnish or in English :D
      Add me on skype, nick: Kyyberi
    • ZakYoun270
      ZakYoun270
      Basic
      Joined: 10.12.2015 Posts: 40
      the thing is that every poker table is heterogeneous so there's not really much merit in considering or discussing what happens 'in general' because you will have much more detailed information about what is going on at your table. the really important considerations are tactical, not strategic.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      How does tactic and strategy differ from each other?

      In poker we need to have "in general" which is our standard way to play against unknown opponent. When we have information, we can use that to adjust our standard decisions.
    • ZakYoun270
      ZakYoun270
      Basic
      Joined: 10.12.2015 Posts: 40
      Strategy is like a long term battle plan whereas tactics are short term plays. For example your strategy might be tight and aggressive. But you might bluff raise the turn for whatever reason in a particular hand. That is a tactic, specifically, bluff raising. Conceptually strategy refers to things that occur over the long term and is more theoretical in nature and tactics refers to things that occur over the short term and is more concrete.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
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      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Ok, then we have just different usage for the words. :)

      In your terms, I just think that your tactics are adjustements to your strategy. If you try to play against individual opponent without having a core strategy (aka vacuum line) it can't be really good.

      Like in Holdem if someone opens a lot from the Button and you want to exploit that, it's really hard to have good adjustment if you have no idea about the basic defending ranges for starting point.
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