# CC 4b BBvsBU 2bb 40%+ OR discution

• Bronze
Joined: 17.10.2011
hello
-im interesting in talk about our range in BB wen we faced a 4b vs BU .
-this is an especific range but, if we have better idea of how cc4b in this situation we can cover alot of another situation in blinds war.
- obviously vs alot of people we can used a explotative 3b , and no used a pretty GTO strategy, but i want to study this becouse if i 3b to much i can be explotable if i fold alot to 4b.
- im not saying this is the best range for 3b , but if u 3b this ,what is the better defend ?

this is the LemOn36's range to 3b here

im going to change somethings im think this is my range :
Where light blue is a call, red=always 3bet, orange=mixed strategy ("bluff" sometimes 3b or call or fold) , blue=always 3b.

this is my 3b range

i make some changes:
- 33 and 22 now in a 3b range
- A5s- A2s is 50% callin 50% folding
- and the other bads suited blufs 50% fold 50% 3b
-75s and 64s always 3b , are too stronge and good to defend vs 4b ( this is part of discussion )

counting hands :
we have a 298 3b hands

counting 4b bluff equity :
if bu OR 2bb and we 3b 7bb and he 4b 17bb , his bluff equity are :
15/(17+7+0.5)= 61 %, we have to fold less than it .

if we fold 57% for example we have to defend by raising o callin 43% of our 3b range :

298*0,43 = 128 hands

my question is wich 128 hands ? ?

i'm think this is what i used:

red to 5b , green mixed 5b and call ,yellow allways call, TT and 99 always call too (mistake)

lemOn36 prefer suited brodways to call 4b , i call all AQ and Ajs KQs but is to hard to me call like ATs JQs Kts, becouse this hands are pretty dominated.. then i used to call suited conectors .... is there in your mind any argument that makes me change my plan ?
• 2 replies
• Coach
Coach
Joined: 07.02.2009
Yeah tbh there was no scientific method behind deciding the 3betting hands and ratios, especially when calling 4bets a lot comes into play
I just found no proof for preflop optimal strategy, databases are tainted by exploitive play at low stakes so it would take a large one from someone who plays against very good opponents without leaks most of the time against which these ranges are designed.

I've used R play ability editor through guesstimative qualitative method for one size and then just applied it for different sizes using power equilab to get defending ranges, which is reasonable - but for 3betting and playing vs 4bets my reference point was Poker Snowie's approach and from the tiny samples of what I've seen top NL regs do vs each other and simply asking good players - this specific range was just a quick approximation of what feels comfortable.

Also when reacting to 4bets the 4bet size is really important, and just like I had some 10 different BB ranges against sizes and %opens you'll have to do the same against 4bets and against small ones that are really common you can probably flat a lot of mixed strat hands and fold to 4bet goes out of the window really.
Again I'd look at it through R and try to see how much equity you realize oop in a 4bet pot, instead of using the 1-A method, and the only resources for that again that I know if is Snowie, and what the top guys do vs each other.

And for that you have to assume 4bet ranges as well which is not something I've done as my focus was on what I can defend in the first place, disregarding 1-A completely
• Bronze
Joined: 17.10.2011
hello lemon interesting answer i had soe questions :
is R a program ? how i can search R program ?? can i se how much equity i realize in some spot with this ?
what is the 1-A method ??