I quit poker for a while and observe my luck in real life....

    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      I will quit poker for a while... I am incredibly unlucky.. I had AA and lost 11 times in 2 days. I had 6 times KK and lost again. AKs 9 times and lost again... I have lost my fate. % 90 of the times I (re)raised the pot and pump the pot pre-flop but what ever I did I couldn't win a single hand. I played on different tables on each table my image wasn't loose and pushed to hell with the late or mid position preflop. I was always the favour. Guys at the tables were surprised how unlucky I was. Only once I pushed all-in with 44 and guess what there is a 4 and won. I am now sick of being that unlucky. I don't see anything to improve in my play... ?( ?( ?(

      Note: I lost 481 $ and also quite nerves...
  • 22 replies
    • Vargan
      Vargan
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 565
      What limit did you play?

      If you use a tracker software its easier to find leaks. :)
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      Man... This has nothing to do with leaks.... What can be leaking with AA KK? I have (re)raised preflop enough to scare out any trash hands but each time I raised there was a caller and luck guy who took all the pot. I play NL25 and it has nothing to do with BRM at the moment (I have enough BR to play this limit). Each time I had AA I said to myself leave the past behind this time you'll get the pot but nahhhhh I get the broken cards against trash or marginal cards... :O
    • nvelev
      nvelev
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 2,014
      Looks like you are overplaying those starting hands. Of course there are some really nasty downswings and bad beats out there but you have to realize that AA KK are just a pair after all ...

      I see you think you have no leaks but it doesn't hurt to check the postflop articles again if you don't decide to quit etc...

      Happy holidays!
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Hi

      I am also playing NL25. I know the feeling with having really good starting hands, or good hands on the flop beaten.

      Your having leaks in your post-flop play. You need to be able to fold AA or KK in some situations.

      Check this video out (I normally don't put videos of pro players or something, but it fits my point):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0b1HQAvTbU&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn

      Ivey did the right play here... calling that, although he is ahead... would be bad. A lot of players say that how can you not push with strong hands like AA or KK or call pushes etc., the opposite is true. If you put it all in with a strong over-pair you better know damn well what your opponent has, because your opponent will know exactly what you have.


      AA and KK are difficult hands to play against other good players. You should always ask yourself why they call pre-flop raise and why they are willing to put a lot of money into the pot post-flop.
    • spit22
      spit22
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.11.2008 Posts: 309
      Originally posted by Dragar
      Hi

      I am also playing NL25. I know the feeling with having really good starting hands, or good hands on the flop beaten.

      Your having leaks in your post-flop play. You need to be able to fold AA or KK in some situations.

      Check this video out (I normally don't put videos of pro players or something, but it fits my point):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0b1HQAvTbU&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn

      Ivey did the right play here... calling that, although he is ahead... would be bad. A lot of players say that how can you not push with strong hands like AA or KK or call pushes etc., the opposite is true. If you put it all in with a strong over-pair you better know damn well what your opponent has, because your opponent will know exactly what you have.


      AA and KK are difficult hands to play against other good players. You should always ask yourself why they call pre-flop raise and why they are willing to put a lot of money into the pot post-flop.
      +1
    • zhorzh
      zhorzh
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 65
      Originally posted by Dragar


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0b1HQAvTbU&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn

      Ivey did the right play here... calling that, although he is ahead... would be bad. A lot of players say that how can you not push with strong hands like AA or KK or call pushes etc., the opposite is true. If you put it all in with a strong over-pair you better know damn well what your opponent has, because your opponent will know exactly what you have.


      Sorry but I can't agree that he did the right play here. I mean really... do you go reraising with 77, 66, 33, 45 preflop? The only hand villain could possibly have is a strong overpair, and Ivey is good against all but AA.
      And if villain really did have AA, he would have probably tried to build a bigger pot preflop by 5 betting Ivey.
      Also, the 10x reraise on flop screams BLUFF to me. Would you try to push Ivey out of the pot if you had a made hand like 77 or a straight or even AA?
      I guess not ;)

      This play is justifiable only if you have strong reads on your opponent that he can 3bet low pocketpairs preflop and cold call a 4bet with AA.

      Originally posted by Dragar

      AA and KK are difficult hands to play against other good players. You should always ask yourself why they call pre-flop raise and why they are willing to put a lot of money into the pot post-flop.
      Exactly. So, what cards could villain be calling with preflop that have you beat on that flop ? Maaaaaaaybeeeeeee 77 and even less 66. 45 and 33 are IMO out of the equation. The most probable hand is AA. But then again, if he only called preflop with AA being deepstacked, its just bad play from him and I am sure Phil would have noticed that.

      Thats my 5 cents
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Call me crazy, but is that not why you expect to have someone stack
      off on you when you hit a set?

      From that video, I look at it this way.

      Calling Ivey hero,

      Villain knows from Hero's raise, it is a monster hes looking at.

      If he had been holding say 77 or some pocket pair that spiked a set on
      the flop....

      He would know using implied odds he can call with a lower PP.

      So he goes for it and acts just exactly as if he had that lower PP.

      That is why Phil is one of the best dam players out there.

      He know something was wrong.... And He laid down that KK.

      Ok so this one time it was against a very smart bluff...

      But I dont think Phil lays down KK often, And I think he saves a pile when
      he does.

      Most people would have called the all in instantly with a flop like that.

      And if that lower pocket pair had hit the set....

      The implied odds for villain pay off just like they should.
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      No need to compare real games and online games... I clearly showed that I had strong hands but all I got empty air because I wasn't lucky enough to have a villain with one pair or without flush draw... The only fault comes to my mind is I played extremely aggresive without giving much credit to opponents and the community cards. It is painful to fold when you have AA. It leads to fear of anything. I even had only one situation where I had 3 of a kind (AAA) and was beaten to a straight on the river. No matter how strong I push, it's like inevitable destiny :D ... I can't say that, That's poker! anymore....

      Anyway I'll need to calm down and stop crying :)
    • Vargan
      Vargan
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 565
      Do you think your game is flawless?

      Seems like you blame everything on bad luck.

      Show us some sample hands.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Hey ok to everyone who is still saying you should just push:

      You said it yourself 897, the only hands which have you beat are sets... which is very unlikely in your opinion.

      Well more often then not if villain pushes exactly that has happened.


      Think of it... you have AA. Board is some dry rainbow flop, and villain check/raises insane amount or bets pot, 4-bets you. What does he have? There is only one thing he can have... you definatly have to fold even if you have AA here.

      Its not about beeing scared or results orientated, there are dead give aways for flopped sets by bad players (example: Pre-flop villain limps, you raise he calls, flop he checks/raises 4-bets whatever and flop has low numbers... this is more often then not a set). A lot of players tend to ignore them and then just be like.. oh well this happens only 1/5 of the time.
      Nah wrong acctually.. villain will not go all in if he did not hit set in these situations. There are acctually only rare occurances villain will go all in vs strong over pair when having a weaker hand.

      It normally only happens when KK or AA is up agains AJ+ and villain having TPTK. Now think of the odds of this happening and put it against the odds of villain pushing all-in with set and you calling.

      You can seriously get into trouble with this. I had a longer period where KK was my biggest loosing hand because of this mistake.

      This is not a downswing, its a leak.


      Maybe last note... I play strictly SH and this is what I am up against there, bad players will check/call weak pocket pairs, good players will raise 22 even from UTG. It might be different on FR.
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      Well there isn't much to post when you have AA KK... I just push with those cards and go all-in as soon as possible. I was really lucky to have those cards but I think I did what I could and lost. Regarding posting the hands, I play on Pacific Poker and this site does not allow you to keep your hand history on your computer (locally) and I am really lazy to search and then post them manually.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by roswellx
      Well there isn't much to post when you have AA KK... I just push with those cards and go all-in as soon as possible. I was really lucky to have those cards but I think I did what I could and lost. Regarding posting the hands, I play on Pacific Poker and this site does not allow you to keep your hand history on your computer (locally) and I am really lazy to search and then post them manually.
      I think your going to turn AA and KK into loosing hands like that if they not already are for you.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      AA and KK is only good for big pots if you go all in preflop, if someone has called you and when the flop comes he calls or reraises you, he has you. Read Super System or smth, and you'll understand. I allways call with small pp against the guy with big stack and blind aggresion, it just pays off to loose few small pots, and then win a huge one.
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      Well, okkk but it is eventually very :club: unlucky :club: to flop them a set... Could you define me what does downswing mean? Is it only on the river in your opinion? Even though you see each others' cards I couldn't do anything... You can only stop losing money. Ok this is where the confusion starts right !? Ok you folded once, twice... but can't fold always... I cannot really... If I do this and then I really get paranoiac. Afaik downswing is having bad luck and thus losing despite playing well enough. Anyway we can close this topic as it was not opened to take advices but just relaxing (physiologically) ... Though I do appreciate your efforts :heart:

      Let the luck of other players do not make you fold your AA
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Well you see,, while you could have played AA different way, you'd have maybe not the bigest but definetly + in your bankroll but instead of that, you played it the way you played it, and now have a big fat minus. You can read what is downswing in psychology articles. Yes they were lucky to get that set, but you payed em off for every time they missed the flop so your main mistake was that you did not make em to do a mistake by trying to hit that set! Anyway, it's up to you to decide what to do next, take some break, read some literature and you'll be back sooner than you'll understand it. So see you! ;)
    • zhorzh
      zhorzh
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 65
      Returning to Phil Ivey hand ... the villain did not call preflop.
      He reraised the raise from that J9 guy, and when Ivey 4bet him, he just called.
      This sequence to me means that villain does not have a small pocket pair (99-), since you do not normally reraise preflop with them but just call for implied odds.
      Since the villain played a reraise/call 4bet line, I would not put him on a very strong pocket (AA, KK) neither.
      From the preflop play, I would put him on a pocket between TT and QQ/KK, or possibly AKs (reraise the initial raise and call 4 bet).
      When you combine that with the flop, you cant really think he has a set or a str8. So it leaves you with only TT+, out of which only AA beats you.

      I think Ivey thought that villain has AA, and that he was trapping by only calling his 4 bet.
      But you have to have a good read to put opp on a set , str8 or AA.
      I think he played that hand too nitty.
    • Harold1
      Harold1
      Global
      Joined: 09.11.2008 Posts: 140
      Just take a break for a full day or two and if it's only "bad luck" you'll bounce back. Otherwise you better post hands and follow the coaching.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Hi to topic starter. I just played a hand to show what I mean with the leaks you have:

      $0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
      5 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG greators ($23.25)
      CO try_hrdr ($25.50)
      BTN bumpbump77 ($18.80)
      SB Leo258 ($121.80)
      BB Hero ($25.35)

      Pre-flop: ($0.35, 5 players) Hero is BB 2:spade: 2:club:
      1 fold, try_hrdr raises to $0.85, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60

      Flop: 7:club: 2:heart: 9:heart: ($1.80, 2 players)
      Hero bets $1.20, try_hrdr raises to $5.40, Hero goes all-in $24.50, try_hrdr calls $19.10

      Turn: K:diamond: ($50.80, 2 players)

      River: 7:spade: ($50.80, 2 players)

      Final Pot: $50.80
      Hero shows: 2:spade: 2:club:
      try_hrdr shows: Q:heart: Q:spade:

      Hero wins $48.30 ( won +$22.95 )
      try_hrdr lost -$25.35

      It should have been a fold for villain (I would fold if I were him)... I think you would have played the same.
    • roswellx
      roswellx
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      Well yes I would play like him except pre-flop raise wouldn't be 0.85 $ but at least 1.3$ would you still call with such hand ? Do you call any pairs from any position ? It's pure luck of yours in this case and that is what I mean by downswing (lack of luck ???) Unfortunately, I do not count this as a leak. As it is possible that another Q can come on the turn or river making HIM lucky then would it be leak of yours or bad luck ?
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