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Micro exPLOsion or just some PLO

    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      Hey there!

      My name is Michael, I am 26 year old student from Austria and started to play poker again. I think that the bankroll challenge is a nice way to keep track of your winnings/losses and maybe chitchat with other community members about the ups and downs of poker.

      Poker History:

      I started to play poker a while ago and also took it "seriously" for a couple of months. Due to a lack of motivation to study in combiantion with a runbad and quite a small samplesize i quit after like 2 months, which is nothing to be proud of. Starting out with NL2 and reaching NL5 after a while I started tilting and blew the most of my bankroll.
      A friend of mine, who is a very successful poker player, introduced me to PLO and I must admit that I like it more than NLHE, so I gave it a shot. I kept studying the game by using quite a nice article series I found online. After some time I was able to reach PLO5 (after spending a bit on PLO2 ofc) and had to take atound 3/4 shots to stay there. After almost reaching PLO10 I had a couple of very bad sessions which lead to heavy tilt and, again, I blew more than half of my roll in 1 or 2 sessions I think (cant remember exactly)

      The worst thing about it was constantly running under EV, which just destroyed my mental game tbh. At PLO2 I ran like 20BI under EV (meaning being in the reds while I should have been in the greens...),but somehow managed to overcome that and grind it out, dont ask me how I did that...I dont know. At PLO5 it was the same, but i couldnt cope with it that time and lost it all again. Being pissed I just gave up poker again.

      The problem was,I think, the relatively small amount of hands I played.


      I have to start out at PLO2 and want to grind my roll up according to this plan ->

      $2PLO to $5PLO: Grind in 50BI (100$) at $PLO2 and build the roll to 50 + 10 BI (50$) for a shot at $5PLO
      $5PLO to $10PLO: Grind in 20 BI ($100) at $5PLO and build the roll to 50+10 BI ($350) for a shot at $10PLO.
      $10PLO to $25PLO: Grind in 40 BI ($400) at $10PLO and build the roll to 50+10 BI ($750) for a shot at $25PLO.
      $25PLO to $50PLO: Grind in 40 BI ($1000) at $25PLO and build the roll to 50+10 BI ($1750) for a shot at $50PLO.

      $50PLO to $100PLO: Grind in 35 BI ($1750) at $50PLO and build the roll to 50+10 BI ($3500) for a shot at $100PLO.
      $100PLO to $200PLO: Grind in 35 BI ($3500) at $100PLO and build the roll to 50+10 BI ($7000) for a shot at $200PLO.

      So the dream is to reach PLO50 someday. Therefore, I need a roll of 1750$ to do that. In fact, I think that at PLO50 I could make a nice income, although I have no intention to live from that as it would be somehow unrealistic.

      Unfortunately, I play on PokerStars and made a mistake while registering on that platform. So I am not tracked by PokerStrategy,which means that I will not receive any PS points to be able to watch PLO videos.
      Therefore, my plan is to use another site which offers videos (not gonna name it was I do not want to commercialize anything) and read the article series for PLO players again.


      Hmm, I do not really know what to say about that, only that I am going to try not to fail or tilt that bad. I am going to read a book by Jared Tendler, that I have read years ago, that might help me to overcome anxiety, fear, tilting and some other stuff.
      I'm going to try my very best not to fail this time. Also, I think/hope that I am more emotionally stable than a couple of years ago.

      So as I just get started with the challenge and, as a matter of fact, I have played 0 hands up to now, I am going to copy the needed information for the Bankroll Challenge into the right thread on Monday. Hope that it is okay.

      Starting Bankroll: 124,32$
      Desired Bankroll: 1750$

      Let's get started :s_thumbsup:
  • 27 replies
    • Kyyberi
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 11,283
      Have fun! PLO if for Real Men! ;)
    • Thiamtan
      Joined: 18.02.2010 Posts: 1,298
      good luck be nice to follow you some i PLO to :f_drink: :f_drink: :f_drink: :f_drink:
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      @kyyberi hehe that's true :D thanks man!

      @thiamtan thx buddy! PLO is the real deal :f_biggrin: :f_drink:

      So i played quite a long session for my conditions and i even made a small profit :s_biggrin:

      It started out very well, but due to the "long" time playing I lost focus towards the end of the session and lost a couple of BI :s_mad: but hey, profit is profit right!

      Here's one sicko of a hand :

      Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.67 (283.5 bb)
      BB: $2 (100 bb)
      Hero (UTG): $3.87 (193.5 bb)
      MP: $2.12 (106 bb)
      CO: $1.78 (89 bb)
      BTN: $2.63 (131.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with J A A 6
      Hero raises to $0.07, MP calls $0.07, CO calls $0.07, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.36, Hero calls $0.29, MP calls $0.29, CO calls $0.29

      Flop: ($1.45) 9 3 T (4 players)
      BB bets $1.40, Hero raises to $3.51, MP calls $1.76 and is all-in, CO calls $1.42, BB calls $0.24 and is all-in

      Turn: ($8.03) A (4 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($8.03) 8 (4 players, 2 are all-in)

      $8.03 pot ($0.26 rake)
      Final Board: 9 3 T A 8
      BB mucked 9 T J 8 and lost (-$2 net)
      Hero showed J A A 6 and won $7.77 ($5.65 net)
      MP mucked 9 9 T 8 and lost (-$2.12 net)
      CO mucked 2 6 2 K and lost (-$1.78 net)

      Wasn't quite sure what to do tbh but the SPR was so I just shipped it and luckily I was able to win it :pokerface:

      Here is the graph for today's session:

      Hopefully I will be able to put in some volume tomorrow as's gonna be quite a long day at university :rage:
      Also, gonna make more breaks. I am thinking about 45min play and 10-15min break. I think that would be good for the :profit:
    • metalmonkey80
      Joined: 15.08.2013 Posts: 2,797
      Hello Michael,

      Good luck in the bank roll challenge. Looks like you have a solid plan and I look forward to reading how you get on in the coming months.
      Something I though you might find interesting is a series by Schnitzelfisch The Quick Guide to Skyrocketing Your Poker and Life Productivity

      My regards

    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      thank you very much for the link. I already know that and reread parts of it.

      Also, really want to start doing what Schnitzelfisch suggests and so I went to a copy shop today and wanted to buy a big sheet of paper to make a mindmap with my goals on it and hang it on the wall so I can see it all the time. The lady told me that a white sheet of paper costs 10€+ (1,5mx2m) :f_confused: The ridic thing about it was that this was only for "cutting" it, which means that she wanted me to hand her 10 bucks so that she cuts a piece of paper off a roll :f_rolleyes: Said no and went out...gotta think of something else which is a bit cheaper!

      So yesterday I did not grind at all because I had to stay at university for 11h straight to get a couple of things done before the Easter break. When I came home i was really tired and did not feel in the mood to grind and thought that it would be more +EV just to study and look through my database and try to identify some leaks. Found out that my 3bet range was way too tight, around ~1.3 ish. So there is a lot of room to improve.

      Ofc, today I made up for this and grinded quite a bit:

      I played 3670 hands and the outcome is that I lost a bit more than 8$ :f_biggrin:

      At some point I was down more than 19$ and I think that it is good that I did not start to tilt. As the orange line in the picture shows I was running quite well towards the end of the session, which is fine I thin. Some kind of reward for all those hands :f_biggrin:

      I also stopped the session sometimes to think about a couple of stuff. In fact, I do not think that i necessarily played bad during the session. The thing was just that I did study yesterday and tried to implement the revised things into my session today. I called a lot of 3bets with hands that are supposedly good vs a tighter 3betting range (AAxx) as I think that people in the micros often have AAxx when they 3bet. Also given their 3bet stats it mostly tends towards being AAxx.

      So good hands vs AAxx (thinking that they dont always have premium AAxx) are hands like JT98ds for example and other good straight hands. Ofc, you also have to hit the flop in a way and that was mostly not the case. I was not really given the chance to draw in most scenarios (always thinking I am against AAxx) as it would not have been +EV to ship it otf.

      Also, i loosened up my own 3betting range which now not only contains AAxx, but also a couple of other good combinations that can hit the flop hard. Unfortunately, also in these scenarios the flop was mostly not on my side so I had to fold after making a cbet and that cost me quite a bit.

      Of course, I made also some bad decisions by calling some river best and ran into the top of some villain's ranges...also I was sometimes pretty crushed on the river and saw hands that I did not really expect.

      All in all I am quite satisfied with my play today :f_drink: I mean I could have gone on tilt really bad after losing a couple of AIs in a row, but I stayed calm, went outside for a lil walk. Somehow I am able to "think" myself in a good mood again and when I came back I sat down again and started playing and :profit: which is very nice!

      Also took a little screenshot of 3 hands towards the end of the session:

      AAxx on all of the tables :truestory:

      So the conclusion for me after today's session is:

      :spade: Revise stats (HEM)
      :spade: Revise 3 betting / being 3 bet against (did it today but gotta do it again)
      :spade: Go through the session again and try to idenity more leaks (not only most won/lost hands)
      :spade: Do not tilt!!! I hope it stays like it is
      :spade: Work in ranges, meaning: what range villain has
      :spade: Try to isolate more and play more HU many people keep calling all the time and i feel very uncomfortable in multyway pots that were 3bet preflop
      :spade: revise SPR again (big leak atm I think)
      :spade: Trust in yourself and trust your guts (made some calls that when I thought "dont do it, he has it"...)

      :heart: Try to run hot :s_biggrin:

      That's it for today - back to the lab again :f_p:


      Starting Bankroll: 124,32
      Current Bankroll: 116,90
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      So a new day a new update :f_biggrin:

      I played 2433 hands today and these are the results:

      As you can imagine I am not that satisfied with it, but I guess that's PLO right? :f_confused:

      However, I did not have the feeling that i was just randomly clicking buttons, but really tried to think about the hands that I played. At the beginning I used a bit more of a "dont use any plays, just try to get it in when you have it" style and I think that cost me some money. In fact, I am not scared to lose money, I am just scared of making too many wrong decisions.
      I noticed that I was a bit unsure in some spots and really need to revise SPR and how to use it in detail!!!

      Moreover, I sometimes put villain on ranges that were just wrong and saw hands that I did not expect after the river :f_confused: Some were "too good" and some others "too shabby" for the hands that I would have put them on. So also gonna study the HEM stats a lil more again, although I think that I got the basic knowledge.

      Also, I almost finished the article series - only 2 or 3 more to go I think :f_love: I am going to reread some parts that I think are important to me ofc.

      Maybe I'm gonna some more hands later today, but I'm not so sure about that. As long as I have the feeling that I am not on tilt I will play. I did not have that feeling, however, so i just kept playing and playing. The money does not have an impact on me atm as I think the micros do exist to learn the game for people who really want to learn it as they are not expensive :f_thumbsup:

      Anyway, stay tuned for more swings :s_biggrin:

      Starting Bankroll: 124,32$
      Current Bankroll: 100,67$

      Somehow I must have played a couple of hands taht count for yesterday and not for today, as I 13,76$...but its not that important I guess
    • zolaman
      Joined: 09.07.2011 Posts: 69
      Make sure you establish a strict stop-loss strategy! I know this has personally saved me from spewing too much.

      It definitely sucks if you hit your limit early and forced to quit but you'll thank yourself later for sure. Only suggestion (and this is something that just came to mind) is adjusting your stop-loss is good to think about as well: if you find the games are softer (increase stop-loss) or particular harder (decrease stop-loss) for the day. For example, if you find a table particularly soft and your stop-loss is normally 4, allow yourself to lose 5 buyins before you have to quit (but be strict and quit earlier if you must!). Adjusting your stop-loss when you are up will also protect your winnings and this is something I rarely practice but I should. If you are up 6 buyins but lose 8 at some point (this has happened to me for sure) that is not obviously not good bankroll management at all. When you hit certain points in winnings, ensure you adjust your stop-loss.

      As important as learning to hit the 'fold' button is, it is just as important to be able to hit that close [x] button too!
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      Hmm that is a very valid point Sir :f_biggrin:
      Maybe I should think more about stop/loss limits in terms of BI. It's just that PLO is such a swingy game you know. I used to tilt very easy, but I worked on myself (not the last couple of days, but also during my looong time away from poker) and think that I am not that easy to tilt anymore (hopefully that mindset stays as it is :coolface: )

      In fact, that is not my first blog. I started out playing NLHE just like you. Trying to grind a roll from ~5$ish to I dont know where! Reason that often gave me hugest setbacks was my mindset, because after losing 2 AI (where I was ahead) I started to spew money.

      Just like in PLO, back when i started to learn the game and stuff I was really easy to tilt. I grinded my roll up to almost PLO10 and blew 100$+ in just 1 session. Not because of running bad, but because of just shipping every flop with a minimum of equity... I wish I had not done that, but I think that had to be part of the journey.

      As I started to play again, revise allt he stuff I was familiar with (not perfect at any means!!!) I also thought about the monetary aspect. In fact, I try not to think about the money, but just about my play. Today I had so many gnarly hands, but I did not tilt and just kept moving on and thought about the next hand I was in.
      At the end of the day, all you can do to get your money in good and the rest is up to the poker gods.

      For example:

      Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $3.63 (181.5 bb)
      Hero (BB): $2.40 (120 bb)
      UTG: $2.07 (103.5 bb)
      MP: $2.03 (101.5 bb)
      CO: $2.12 (106 bb)
      BTN: $2.19 (109.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with T J 8 T
      4 folds, SB raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.14, SB raises to $0.42, Hero calls $0.28

      Flop: ($0.84) 7 4 T (2 players)
      SB bets $0.81, Hero raises to $1.98 and is all-in, SB calls $1.17

      Turn: ($4.80) 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($4.80) 5 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      $4.80 pot ($0.16 rake)
      Final Board: 7 4 T 3 5
      SB showed 2 A A A and won $4.64 ($2.24 net)
      Hero mucked T J 8 T and lost (-$2.40 net)


      There are also a couple of others like this, but this one is my favourite :f_biggrin:

      It's really that PLO is so much more swingy than NLHE...I do not know where to set a fixed stop/loss limit. Maybe a competent PLO player could also add his/her 2 cents to that question? Two hands that clash on the flop are mostly running rather "close" and so I just think (really just think) that you lose buy ins easier than in NLHE.

      I guess a good stop loss limit would be 5 buy ins though...The question is if you should stop playing for the whole day then, or if you should just go for a walk/do something else for a little while and then go on playing (always under the assumption that you do not have the feeling to tilt and spew money!!!).

      How do you handle that?

      Anyway, thank you for your suggestion zolaman :f_drink: I guess I will set my stop/loss at 5 buy ins
    • zolaman
      Joined: 09.07.2011 Posts: 69
      I think that's a great start. You don't need to stop playing for the rest of the day but definitely take a break. You can do something else like: exercise, read a book, go for a walk, etc. I know most people would suggest to do something unrelated to poker but I think it's fine to review hand histories and do some in-depth studying of leaks in your game and get back into a new session when you are mentally ready. But most importantly do not to rush back into a session.

      In my opinion it's probably best to just take the rest of the day off and put the extra time into valuable studying but this could be difficult if your whole day was planned around playing poker. This of course is all preference and I know for a fact I would want to take a second shot if I had a bad run early but I do most of my playing in the late evenings to avoid this.

      Best of luck and let us know how implementing a stop-loss strategy works for you!
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      Originally posted by zolaman

      In my opinion it's probably best to just take the rest of the day off and put the extra time into valuable studying but this could be difficult if your whole day was planned around playing poker. This of course is all preference and I know for a fact I would want to take a second shot if I had a bad run early but I do most of my playing in the late evenings to avoid this.

      Best of luck and let us know how implementing a stop-loss strategy works for you!
      That's the plan for tomorrow (as well as it was for today :f_biggrin: )
      You really have a valid point there, because I think after losing a couple of BIs it might be possible that you do not really realize how you tilt! Put in other words, you do not realize how you are playing worse (not spewing money or something), but your general play falls off the cliff because of getting moneyscared or stuff like that.

      So after today's and yesterday's session I sat down and went through the HEM database to take a look at a couple of things and I think I now know what to do to be a winner at PLO2, at least I hope so :f_biggrin:

      :spade: Do not try to bluff people if they have hit an Ace
      :spade: Reduce bluffing in general
      :spade: Bet big with value hands because they probably gonna call and chase their draws
      :spade: If they raise you, believe them
      :spade: Do not be afraid to bet the river! In case you get checkraised, believe them. I found out that almost nobody (myself included) is betting the river for value. People normally check/call to bluffcatch, so I am going to try to exploit that knowledge :s_biggrin:
      :spade: Get a chart or something that teaches me common equity scenarios on the flop so that I know where I am standing
      :spade: SPR!!!

      Btw, I played another small session and was able to win back a some BI :milord:
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      Just updating very shortly today as I am really tired :f_ugly:

      Was not able to play that much today, here is the graph:

      Wuhu, finally the upswing came and in the middle of the session my lap top doomswitched everything and the screen froze...:pcuser: Couldn't do much about it, but restart it and hope for the best. Luckily, I was not in a big hand or something so it was not that bad. I wanted to play some more, but counted the lap top as too much variance and stopped.

      Anyway I also dropped a little bit in VPIP/PFR from 23/15 to 20/12 and tightened up in some spots. Hopefully it will go on like this :s_biggrin:

      Starting Bankroll: 124,32$
      Current Bankroll: 120,78$ (120 cause of 3BIish that I also won back yesterday after posting the graph)

      btw: Does anyone know why tinypic is deleting my pictures??? Maybe any suggestions for a page to upload pictures (that is free) and that does not delete pics? :f_biggrin:
    • zolaman
      Joined: 09.07.2011 Posts: 69
      Nice graph!

      Originally posted by Rains7

      btw: Does anyone know why tinypic is deleting my pictures??? Maybe any suggestions for a page to upload pictures (that is free) and that does not delete pics? :f_biggrin:
      Just drag and drop the image from your desktop into the text box. Uploads automatically to PokerStrategy. Or you could set up an imgur account and that works well on any site.
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      Well thanks a lot man, that makes stuff a whole lot easier :f_drink:

      Yeah, I hope the good run is going to continue! Would be really nice :f_biggrin:
    • Rhodriguez
      Joined: 01.10.2006 Posts: 683
      Yeah a new PLO-Blog! I just want to say hi too! I'm looking forward to read all eagerly when I'm back home. Till then I wish you good luck and sláinte!
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      @Rhodriguez Thanky you Sir! Nice to have you around. Also going to read your blog ofc - let's move up buddy :f_drink:

      So an update for today. First of all I start with the graph and then talk about some other things:

      The session started out really well and I was highly motivated to play a lot of hands and try to play as good as I can. After a small break I started to try to play on four tables of Zoom. It started out going quite well and I just kept sticking to my gameplay. After a while i realized how much focus it actually takes to be able to cope with so many hands in such a small period of time :f_biggrin:
      Moreover, my screen is not big as I am using a lap top to play and so the HUD stats are so small that I really have to focus a lot to actually see the numbers :f_ugly: The main problem was really that I think. Those tiny little 65/3 and stuff are so small that it took like 30% of the focus and I got tired quite quickly!
      Also I ran into quads 2x and got coolered quite a bit which also let me to not play my A I thought it was better to quit :s_drink:

      Lesson learned is that I either need a bigger screen if I want to play 4 tables at the same time, or that I just play 3 or less.

      Another thing is that my girlfriend finally arrived and I am going to try to spend as much time with her as possible, meaning that I am probably not going to put in a lot of volume. Not only does she live 400 kilmometers away from me, she is also going to go on a semester abroad at the beginning of May :f_frown: So I really want to have as much quality time as possible.

      Stay tuned for more swings :s_biggrin:
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      Hey there :)

      Somehow the forum is different today as the box for an entry got smaller somehow - maybe only I can see it like that cause of pressing buttons by mistake idk :D

      It is also not possible to insert a picture which is strange somehow - also clicking on emoticons does not work :P

      Anyway, I made 3,23 today! I am totally not satisfied by my play and could find some areas that need a lot of work e.g. c-betting!

      As this strane forum setup annoys me somehow I am just gonna wish you gl at the tables and end it for today :P
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      Whad up guys, I'm back with an update. Due to yesterdays problems with posting pictures and stuff I'm gonna show you the graph for the last two days:

      I am running over EV, which is good for the $$$ ofc :f_biggrin:

      In fact, I kept thinking about that for a bit and came to the conclusion that the orange line displays the EV from the moment 2 players are all in. It does not show e.g. a hand that I am way ahead with on the flop and just cant get it in... For example, if I am ahead and bet pot after a 3 bet and villain just calls and hits his 20% or something and we both push it ott, the EV for hitting his turncard is not displayed in the graph. I do not want to say that I play well and blah blah blah, but I would also like to see the outcome of the EV line if that was taken into account.

      Moreover, I am not satisfied with my play at all...I know that I am losing a lot of EV in a couple of spots. I must have some serious leaks, because somehow I cant maintain a lead. Basically, I mean that if i win a stack and I am up for 1,80$, for exapmle, that over the time i start losing it little by little. Probably that has something to do with bet sizing and c betting, I guess. Therefore, I am going to watch some videos about that topic.

      Anyway, I think I'm gonna go to sleep soon as I am quite tired. Wish you all good luck at the tables :f_drink:
    • stefanL
      Joined: 14.11.2007 Posts: 773
      good luck man :f_biggrin:
    • Rains7
      Joined: 21.04.2010 Posts: 246
      @stefanl hahaha thx :f_biggrin: :f_drink:

      Hey, whats up :f_drink:

      Didn't update the blog cause I think that updating it every day is a bit I think I'm gonna do that only 2-3 times a week, also depending if something interesting is happening or not!

      Played a whole lot of poker and managed to win some moneyz :s_biggrin:

      Now, I can take a shot at PLO5 and I'm quite excited about that

      Hopefully it will work out and I can stay at that limit, but only time will tell I guess. I hope I dont jinx anything by any actions as I am running incredibly hot atm! I am like 10BI above EV and it seems like I just cant miss a draw :f_biggrin:

      That's about it, gonna go to sleep now and enjoy the easter days. Gn8 and happy Easter everybody :s_drink:
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