Is 0.05/0.1 FL worth it?

    • FarNorth
      FarNorth
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.11.2008 Posts: 21
      When I started FL with my $50 I went straight to 0.1/0.2 because I had tried 0.05/0.1 earlier on and found it too frustrating with people staying in and raising with absolutely anything.

      I was doing ok and got up to about $68. Then things started going south. I think both that I was on a bad streak of cards, and I was forgetting what I learned in the articles. At $55 I stepped down to 0.05/0.1 tables but the streak continued (just slower). I've been re-reading the articles and the SHC, and posted a few hands, but I'm seeing the same thing I did before. That is, a lot of players calling and raising with any two cards. With a full table it seems there are always 5 or 6 players calling/raising and by the river very often some really poor hand wins.

      Can the pokerstrategy.com lessons be used successfully on this low of a table? I realize I'm not remembering the lessons perfectly, but I don't think I'm playing that far from what's written. Maybe?

      I think I'll try to watch some live coaching if I can find one that low.
  • 12 replies
    • Amirapuato
      Amirapuato
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2007 Posts: 1,105
      IMHO, just stay on 0.1/0.2, if you're multitabling, play less tables and focus more on your play.

      Reread the articles, follow the SHC (the bronze one) and you'll be OK again in no time.

      BTW, which site do you play at?
    • Alafoe
      Alafoe
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2008 Posts: 202
      I started 0.25/0.5 and wish there would be more peolple raising any hand. Its sad to either win 1-3BB on AA or lose 5BB to some real strong flop made combination.
    • FarNorth
      FarNorth
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.11.2008 Posts: 21
      I've been playing at Titan and at Pokerstars. I think I will go back to 0.1/0.2 and see what happens.

      Thanks.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Hey FarNorth.

      Don't get discouraged too easily. Yes you will get bad beats, and folks calling down with all sorts, but these are losing players making bad decisions. You may well go on 10k stretches where nothing goes right and everyone sucks out on you. I know, I've been there on a couple of occassions. Don't let these short term outcomes make you question what you are learning.

      Having said this, don't stop learning and posting hands, reading articles, etc because this is the behaviour that WILL make you a better player.

      In the main forget that these players could be playing any two cards because that sort of thinking distracts you. Try and focus as best you can on how each hand progresses and make the best decisions you can using the knowledge you are accumulating through ps.com.

      The strategy works when applied correctly, and works effectively at low limits. Don't let short term outcomes impact on what you are trying to achieve - and that is a solid fixed limit game.

      And stick to BRM unless you have a good reason not to. A lack of belief in your game / the strategy is NOT a good reason to move up limits!!!

      Good luck mate, just stick with it, and with discipline the results will turn around.
    • eddygunz
      eddygunz
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2008 Posts: 10
      ok
    • adr0001
      adr0001
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      Originally posted by FarNorth
      With a full table it seems there are always 5 or 6 players calling/raising and by the river very often some really poor hand wins.
      This is the reason I never played full ring. I love to play with loose players but if there are >5-6, they will very often suck out. I suggest you to switch to SH. Not only you have only 5 opponents there, but you also play more hands and you have bigger winrate ;)
    • TTT241
      TTT241
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2008 Posts: 452
      I am putting together post about variability.

      Please have a look at picture bellow. It shows where the expected game results should be - it is computed for stdev 15BB / 100 hands and 1 BB income - average player on FL FR.

      The center line is mean, the iner lines shows 95% confidence interval, outlines show 99.97% confidence interval, on X is number of hands.

      TTT

    • FarNorth
      FarNorth
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.11.2008 Posts: 21
      Thanks for the encouragement and advice everyone. I feel a little better today - tried to stick with the program on 2 tables and managed to come out ahead a couple of dollars. It was weird though - at one table I was going gangbusters - getting decent cards at a rate like I was a month ago. At the other table - yuck. I played about 150 - 200 hands and had nothing better than QJ suited except maybe 4 times - all in the last 30 hands.

      adr0001 - I tried SH for an hour or so last night - much faster - seems a little more like a SnG. Is there a different starting hands chart for SH play or do you just play as if there are no early positions?

      TTT241 - I will keep an eye out for your post. Sorry to have to ask, but what does 15BB/100 mean? I can understand statistics, but I still don't know a lot of the abbreviations LOL.

      Waiboy - you mean 10k hands! Oh man, I think I've only played 3k total so far. But I take your point and you're right. The goal of this is to be a generally better player.

      Thanks
    • TerrorBlade
      TerrorBlade
      Black
      Joined: 16.10.2007 Posts: 1,922
      SH is FR with the first 4 positions folded correct.

      He means the standard deviation for the winrate is 15BB/100 which means 15 big bets (for 10/20 1BB = 20$) every 100 hands.

      Post as many hands as you can manage/visit coachings and you'll beat these limits for sure, I myself went from 50$->~30 before steadily increasing from there.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by FarNorth
      Waiboy - you mean 10k hands! Oh man, I think I've only played 3k total so far. But I take your point and you're right. The goal of this is to be a generally better player.

      Thanks
      Yup - 10k hands! (and you will read other posts about much, much longer stretches of break even play, but generally at higher limits). :(

      Remember, its easy to get down over a couple of days or a week or a fortnight (depending on how much you play) where nothing seems to go right, but in reality you must consider substantial hand samples before you can really start to definitely make judgements on how you are going.

      I've found to date that I've generally increased my bank roll to be able to move up limits before being at a statistically significant number of hands to make those judgements!

      Can I suggest reading through some of the other FL blogs. They are really good for giving some perspective when you see the ups and downs other players have gone through. You will see times when they are down and questioning their game, poker in general, and a couple of weeks later they are moving up limits and smoking all opposition!

      Poker is a marathon, not a sprint. Perseverence and discipline are boring, but are key!

      Go hard fella! :D
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by FarNorth
      I was doing ok and got up to about $68. Then things started going south. I think both that I was on a bad streak of cards, and I was forgetting what I learned in the articles. At $55 I stepped down to 0.05/0.1 tables but the streak continued (just slower). I've been re-reading the articles and the SHC, and posted a few hands, but I'm seeing the same thing I did before. That is, a lot of players calling and raising with any two cards. With a full table it seems there are always 5 or 6 players calling/raising and by the river very often some really poor hand wins.

      Can the pokerstrategy.com lessons be used successfully on this low of a table? I realize I'm not remembering the lessons perfectly, but I don't think I'm playing that far from what's written. Maybe?
      I've just taken my first crack at $1/$2 FR at Titan because there are literally NO $.50/$1 SH tables at the moment - and I immediately thought of this thread.

      There are currently a couple of +50% VPIP players and every hand has 4-6 players in! EP limpers, late position maniacs, multiple callers to UTG raises. The folding post flop is probably a little better, but not much IMO (at least at this first impressions stage).

      Best example yet that what you are learning applies for a long while yet! :D
    • TTT241
      TTT241
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2008 Posts: 452
      Have a look here


      Something about variance and expected results

      This is for NL game. For fixed limit it works same, only the numbers are different... yep and BB in that post means Big Blind = 1/2 BigBet ;)

      TTT