[NL2-NL10] NL100, KJs, freeplay

    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $76,85
      Hero:
      $20,00
      MP1:
      $204,85
      CO:
      $100,00

      0,5/1 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.65 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:heart: , J:heart:
      UTG2 folds, MP1 calls $1,00, 2 folds, CO calls $1,00, BU folds, SB calls $0,50, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($4,00) T:club: , J:club: , 9:club: (4 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets $2,00, 2 folds, Hero raises to $8,00, MP1 raises to $14,00, Hero raises to $19,00 (All-In), MP1 calls $5,00.

      Turn: ($42,00) Q:club:
      River: ($42,00) 5:diamond: (1 players)


      Final Pot: $42,00

      I prefer to play freeplay hands in multiway pots when I hold 2pair+, so I checked when I was first to act, but when MP1 who is very loose and overaggressive bet and both other players folded I decided to go broke against him with TPTK, but otherwise I would just c/f.

      Too connected board to play TPTK perhaps?
  • 20 replies
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Versus maniacal types on ultra-scary boards with hands that have SD value i prefer to see a turn as cheaply as possible with the intention of getting my stack in on the turn after decent turns. ie. jam the pot when villain's maniacal shoving range has considerably less equity.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      check/call$2 Flop and see what the Turn brings, shoving here makes only weaker hands than you fold, with 4 players, chances are high someone has a Q, or a 8 for that matter
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by Gerv
      check/call$2 Flop and see what the Turn brings, shoving here makes only weaker hands than you fold, with 4 players, chances are high someone has a Q, or a 8 for that matter
      I would agree with you here, but as I stated in my original post I was gonna give up this hand against 3 villains, but when the action came back to me there was only me against a raiser, who is LAGy and for this reason I decided to go for it.

      ...and high chances of someone holding Q or 8 or :club: ... ...I should be protecting my hand against them instead of giving them free cards and being passive imo.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      It's not about protecting because you can still get away with a significant stack, if you shove here you are basically flipping against a monsterdraw =/
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      That's true, but I am well ahead of OESD or FD and way ahead against weak/medium made hands, and that guy could really have anything imo. His stats are just so fishy and the hands I've seen him play confirmed he was a LAG. For this reason I decided to go all-in as soon as possible and on the other hand if I called flop and saw that Q :club: coming on the turn I would give up the hand, even though I was holding the best hand here...
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      imo this depends on your image because you check/raised a LAG that takes a stab at a pot. Now he 3-bets you so if I was you , I would seriously think about this.

      Okay he can 3-bet with nothing but air but that would be unprofitable play from his part and kind of crazy on this board.

      A LAG takes iniative in position but whenever resistance come he mucks his hand. I do not see any reasons he would 3-bet a tight SSplayer with Air.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by Gerv
      imo this depends on your image because you check/raised a LAG that takes a stab at a pot. Now he 3-bets you so if I was you , I would seriously think about this.

      Okay he can 3-bet with nothing but air but that would be unprofitable play from his part and kind of crazy on this board.

      A LAG takes iniative in position but whenever resistance come he mucks his hand. I do not see any reasons he would 3-bet a tight SSplayer with Air.
      I agree with all you say, but I presume this one is really a bad player he goes to SD with crap, which you can see from his W$@SD and WTS(and with 60 vpip and 53 WTS you can get a picture even after 25 hands, also I saw him make some bad play).

      So, you would advise me to call flop and continue on the turn if no scare card comes up? I am not sure if that's the best play, because he will shoot again turn almost certainly and we have no information on him imo. I was thinking from what you wrote, would you say check/3-bet/fold could be good line here on the flop?
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I would call and evaluate.

      If its a blank I surely c/rai on the River with TPTK and a GS

      Do you mean check/raise Flop and then fold if he went all-in? so instead that you go all-in in this example, you fold on his minRReraise of $14? If so, nope because the odds you get is way to good against his range
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Originally posted by burek2000

      So, you would advise me to call flop and continue on the turn if no scare card comes up? I am not sure if that's the best play, because he will shoot again turn almost certainly and we have no information on him imo. I was thinking from what you wrote, would you say check/3-bet/fold could be good line here on the flop?
      When there are lots of potential big draws out against your dry top-pair it makes tons of sense (and $'s) to get your stack in on the turn. If however villain is stabbing on the flop with a very wide range then raising the flop might fold out junk and get action from a pretty strong range. Some of that junk might well have bet on the turn and all the drawing hands that you didn't extract value from on the flop will probably still go berserk on the turn anyway (with 1/2 the equity). Smooth calling the flop is win-win.
    • IngolPoker
      IngolPoker
      Black
      Joined: 05.09.2006 Posts: 10,467
      Why do you all like the initial check?

      We are ahead of the draws and against all straight draws we have nutouts with the Q.

      I would hate to check and give freecards here.

      btw, you can also raise preflop against this megafish in MP3. CO wont have a hand , too, if he doesnt isolate the fish
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by Gerv
      I would call and evaluate.

      If its a blank I surely c/rai on the River with TPTK and a GS

      Do you mean check/raise Flop and then fold if he went all-in? so instead that you go all-in in this example, you fold on his minRReraise of $14? If so, nope because the odds you get is way to good against his range
      Yeah, I meant to fold against the minreraise on the flop, but you're right, way too good odds to fold it, just thought might be profitable, since then his range would prolly tighten up a lot...

      ...so, call should be best option, but what I'm worried about is, how to play turn when a scare card comes(let's presume I called his 2$ bet), Q :club: in this case. I obviously cannot donk turn and he shots again, what can I do here except fold without :club: ? Do you think I should call flop and play c/f turn and c/f river with 4 :club: on the board against that player?
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by IngolPoker
      Why do you all like the initial check?

      We are ahead of the draws and against all straight draws we have nutouts with the Q.

      I would hate to check and give freecards here.

      btw, you can also raise preflop against this megafish in MP3. CO wont have a hand , too, if he doesnt isolate the fish
      Maybe I'm too tight, but I prefer to play 2pair+ in freeplays. :)

      Anyway, the villain(MP3) would prolly reraise me here(considering he was holding 87o) if I bet first, so should I go broke against him in that case or should I play bet/fold on such a flop?
    • IngolPoker
      IngolPoker
      Black
      Joined: 05.09.2006 Posts: 10,467
      smile and shove
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Originally posted by IngolPoker
      Why do you all like the initial check?

      On these types of boards our TPGK has surprisingly little equity.

      Board: 9c Tc Jc
      Dead:

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 24.631% 22.80% 01.83% 115539 9272.25 { A6s-A2s, K8s-K2s, Q8s-Q2s, J4s+, T5s+, 95s+, 85s+, 75s+, 63s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A8o-A2o, K8o-K5o, Q8o-Q6o, J8o-J7o, T7o+, 97o+, 86o+, 75o+, 64o+, 54o }
      Hand 1: 20.227% 18.57% 01.66% 94077 8414.25 { 66-22, KJs, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s }
      Hand 2: 29.389% 27.33% 02.05% 138510 10410.25 { QQ-22, AQs-A2s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo-ATo, KJo+ }
      Hand 3: 25.753% 23.13% 02.62% 117206 13288.25 { KhJh }

      If the flop gets checked around and we are able to correctly assume that there was no other made hand on the flop as strong as top-pair then our turn equity is about 60% if it bricks off.
    • ysessa
      ysessa
      Basic
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 1,331
      nl100

      push pre thank you
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by ysessa
      nl100

      push pre thank you
      I push all the hands from SHC here, but KJs isn't one of them, so could you give me the push range from the blinds, please? :rolleyes:
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      may I know why would you push preflop? what kind of move is this called? I don't recall reading about such stuff yet (platinum?)
    • ysessa
      ysessa
      Basic
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 1,331
      ok so there is no real article but how would you play hands from the shc basicly push them because its very hard to play them oop against 3 limpers.

      the most hands that are limped are pockets and with kj you flip against any pocket lower tt, in this spot here you are far ahead against mp1s range co also looks weak otherwise he would isolate the fish, sb complete can be any2 so i push preflop and collect the deadmoney or sometimes flip against a pocket.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Do you also shove with KJ offsuit?
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