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The Limp, re-raise (3b)

    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,225
      The good ol' limp to re-raise. I remember the early days of my poker career where I would use this move to death.

      Now I almost never use it. I think it telegraphs your hand strength and range to anyone else who is familiar to this move. How the hell would you balance this, what other hands do you do this with apart from QQ+?

      Also does it even matter? If so when?

      Personally if I am playing something like NL2-10 we should be playing exploitatively , so against the majority of the player pools here I think it is fine because they won't know what's going on or adjust. Obviously vs thinking opponents or at NL10/25+ its not going to wash b/c our range is pretty much face up IMO and villains can play perfectly against us.

      This is just something that occurred to me recently whilst playing NL5 6 max zoom cash. I got an awful lot of QQ+ hands UTG and limp re-raising crossed my mine as a viable line since I am playing NL5. Just thought it would be interesting to see if anyone still uses this?
  • 6 replies
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,954
      I don't think limp raising is a good idea..
      I don't see any reason to open bluff hands just to limp raise, it's better to just fold that trash pre flop.
      As a value line it has some problems. 1. We miss value if no one iso-raises 2. We miss value because ppl fold too much to limp raises, because it is very often a strong hand.

      I don't see limp raises very often and when I see, it is from a fishy player. I pretty much always just fold there. Happens so rarely and is very often a strong hand.. And I never use it myself :)
    • rompas
      rompas
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.02.2014 Posts: 3,277
      could it be good against players that raise alot in position with a wide range? :f_rolleyes: if this move screams strong hand then it could be possible steal alot of small pots from those guys,, and i rather win 100 small pots then 1 big..
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,954
      You would be doing this stealing with weak holdings and you would risk a lot. The pot will be bigger than in normal 3bet pots and when villain calls his range is probably strong. It could work but I'm not sure it is the most optimal way of stealing from aggro guys :)
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,225
      Thanks guys, but I meant more as a value line only. So like using QQ+ specifically at NL2-NL5/10.

      Anything higher than these limits our range is face up IMO and villains can play perfectly against us. Also as you have identified, it's pretty hard to do this as a bluff in order to balance it somewhat.

      My main thought process is that b/c we don't encounter as many thinking players, people just call off wider any way and we can reduce SPR's and stack off easier.

      e.g our usual line is to open QQ+ from UTG. We get flat by everything except QQ+/AK, sometimes JJ+/AQs+. This gives us a high SPR postflop.

      if we limp re-raise, villain is ISO-ing wider. and probably only 4b's QQ+/AK. and b/c villain is IP he is calling wider with a dominated range, but this time SPR's are lower and we can stack off much more easily on good boards.

      Problems:
      :spade: if we miss, eg, we 3b with QQ/KK and board is A-hi, we are going to be losing more money w/o SD

      In general I think this is a bad play, but I am purely thinking of exploiting bad,non-adjusting recreational players. Who can't fold preflop and just "want to see flops first"
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,954
      If you want to mainly use that as a value line against recreational players, there is a small problem. The problem is that those guys iso-raise very rarely imo. Of course there are some aggro-fish who will go bonkers. So you would have to select the player type carefully. I can see that working if we are SB and there is a aggro fish on BB but from UTG I would not limp those hands.

      You can test it and see how it goes :)
    • Saren113
      Saren113
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2009 Posts: 2,973
      It's a valid MTT move, but not so much a cg move IMO