Big secrets of not-great masters

    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      My name is before surename. :=)

      I wont say my real name, but Ill say that I am obssesed with poker last 10 months. When I saw WSOP on TV i was like whooaa - now, this is my kind of game. I started playing for a little bit in my city and i had difficulties finding players. I started like a well disciplined player ( I think this is very important), and I grabbed some little money (couple of bucks :) )

      I couldnt find game in town, only once a week. I wouldnt go to play on Internet because I thought it was unsecure and engines could rip me (I know, dont say anything).

      Before couple of months I went to live tournament with 100 participants (there were couple of semipros) and came 3rd. Semipros werent 100 % in it so i took advantage of it!

      Now, that was a spark that light a fire. If I could only on my instinct play good, what could it be if I learn and study the game?

      I started playing on internet because I hadnt a playing group in real life. My internet play was lousy. I would lost whole money, after a good runs.

      I started reading a little bit on internet and such. I came confused. A lot of material! I dont know from where to start! With more knowledge I was more and more confused, like I lost a edge and a feeling!

      But biggest thing that I learned is about BANKROLL MANAGMENT!!!!!!! :D :)

      Now i readed articles on Pokerstrategy and started using it in my game. I had some upswing. I earned a little bit, and then comes my problem that I hadnt in my begginings - my eager to fast win and unpatience costed me money. I hitted big downswing last days (still last two weeks Im in +), and Im in Tilt.
      So I decided to write something.

      And yes, I played SSS a little bit, but is so boring and uncreative that I rarely play it.

      I have couple of questions:
      1. How to start serious game? (how to methodicly learn poker, not to be all over the place)

      2. How to learn? I mean for example silver articles. They are a little bit too proffesional with to many words that I have difficulties understanding. Do I need pen and the paper :)

      3. Where to post my most interesentnig good and bad hands?

      4. Are the SSS players killing the spirit in FR games?


      Well this is all from me for first time. I hope that my bad english and long text wasnt boring.

      Basicaly i search for how to start serious poker.
  • 27 replies
    • vhallee
      vhallee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 1,539
      Hello Mudrinjo and welcome to PokerStrategy!

      That was a nice introduction, by the way :)
      Regarding your questions, let me try to help:

      1. How to start serious game? (how to methodicly learn poker, not to be all over the place)
      First you need to decide what kind of poker fits you better: Fixed Limit, No Limit, Sit and Go. Once you know this, head down to the Strategy Articles section and start with the basic articles for the corresponding type of poker you like. Same goes for the instructional Videos section.

      2. How to learn? I mean for example silver articles. They are a little bit too proffesional with to many words that I have difficulties understanding. Do I need pen and the paper
      As I just said, you should start with the basic articles and videos (if you have Silver status it does not mean you should start with silver articles ;) just take it easy from the basic articles and work your way up)

      3. Where to post my most interesentnig good and bad hands?
      Once you know what kind of poker you want to play, there are specific sub-forums where you can post hands and have them evaluated by our hand judges, like:
      - No Limit BSS Sample Hand Forum
      - Fixed Limit Sample Hand Forum
      - MTT Sample Hands Forum

      4. Are the SSS players killing the spirit in FR games?
      Hehe I can't give you an answer to this one, though there have been some discussions on our forums about this :)

      Since you said you played some SSS, I guess you will probably play No Limit, in which case I suggest selecting the No Limit of each section: Strategy Articles, Instructional Videos and Coaching Sessions. Also, remember to use the forums whenever you have a question and you will get answers from our members as soon as possible :)

      Best regards,
      vhallee
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      My game is No limit, thats for sure! I think Doyle Brunson said that No Limit is keeping poker interesting.

      Thanks for reply!

      And another question... How to import a hand from elephant to the post?
    • kennyxx
      kennyxx
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.05.2008 Posts: 998
      Hi Mudrinjo

      here is a hand posting guide.

      look at the picture:



      In elephant on hands tab You can see this table on bottom right. Set the options (You will see changes immediatelly in Elephant) and then click the PS button. Then the hand is in clipboard and You can paste it into Your post. When You are writing post, You can press preview button before posting to see if everything is OK.
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      Thank you! Now, thats easy.

      Now I have another question. How to evaluate m hand. I will put one example here, so if somebody be kind to do the analysis.


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $3,90
      UTG2:
      $0,95
      MP2:
      $3,90
      MP3:
      $5,20
      CO:
      $7,90

      0,05/0,1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 2:spade: , A:diamond:
      UTG1 folds, UTG2 calls $0,10, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0,10, MP3 calls $0,10, CO calls $0,10, BU folds, Hero raises to $0,60, BB folds, UTG2 raises to $0,95 (All-In), MP2 calls $0,85, 2 folds, Hero calls $0,35.

      Flop: ($3,15) 6:heart: , A:spade: , 3:club: (3 players)
      Hero bets $2,95 (All-In), MP2 folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      Turn: ($3,15) T:spade:
      River: ($3,15) 4:spade: (1 players)


      Final Pot: $3,15

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows a pair of aces (2s Ad)
      UTG2 shows a pair of aces (7s Ac)

      UTG2 wins with a pair of aces (7s Ac)



      I sensed it that it was a steal, but something went wrong :(
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      And one more:


      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $1,90
      Hero:
      $4,90

      0,05/0,1 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with 7:diamond: , J:diamond:
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0,40, SB calls $0,35, BB folds.

      Flop: ($0,90) J:spade: , 4:diamond: , 4:spade: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0,90, SB raises to $1,50 (All-In), Hero calls $0,60.

      Turn: ($3,90) 9:heart:
      River: ($3,90) A:club: (1 players)


      Final Pot: $3,90

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows two pairs, jacks and fours (7d Jd)
      SB shows two pairs, aces and fours (As Tc)

      SB wins with two pairs, aces and fours (As Tc)
    • vhallee
      vhallee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 1,539
      Hello Mudrinjo,

      In order to have your hands evaluated by our hand judges, I suggest you use one of these forums, depending on the limits which you play:

      - NL 5 / NL 10 Sample Hands Forum

      - NL 20 / NL 50 Sample Hands Forum

      - NL 100 Sample Hands Forum

      Since you already provided two examples where you play 0.05/0.1, please use the first link.

      Best regards,
      vhallee
    • darkonebg
      darkonebg
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 9,508
      About your hands.Since you are not playing SSS, you have to be fullstacked in order to play efficiently.Those midstacks do nothing but take your edge.Rebuy to max frequently.
      And y, go study the articles.You need to get an in deeph analysis on whats written, not just skim them through.
      Good luck!
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      Originally posted by darkonebg
      About your hands.Since you are not playing SSS, you have to be fullstacked in order to play efficiently.Those midstacks do nothing but take your edge.Rebuy to max frequently.
      And y, go study the articles.You need to get an in deeph analysis on whats written, not just skim them through.
      Good luck!
      Thanks for reply, I just founded some old thread somewhere browsing through the forum....

      How did your BSS studiing went? Did U met or anything?
    • darkonebg
      darkonebg
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 9,508
      No, we are gathering.Im chatting with most of them often though.
      New members are wellcome
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      Just be persistant, its a good idea.

      I would register myself, but Im a little inexpierienced for now and lacking with statistics and knowledge, but in year or two maybe I ll send U a message. :)
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      One more question:

      In elephant there are numbers upper and 4 numbers of the bottom, that are describing the player.

      UPPER:

      VPIP (understand);

      BBvsSteal (dont understand),

      ORL (dont even know what does it mean, couldn find it in glossary),

      RPF (i know what it means, but dont know what numbers present- what kind of player is for example 21)


      BOTTOM:

      AF (i know, but how to evaluate for example 1,3)

      W$SD and WTS - whats the deference, I suppose one is how much one went to SD, and other how much he won? numbers how to evaluate

      last number is hands - does that mean how much hands he played or went to SD?
    • darkonebg
      darkonebg
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 9,508
      Hmm, I would not advise you taking too much attention on stats(and especially postflop stats). You are still learning and have more fundamental things to focus on.
      But anyway.
      BBvsSteal is how often player is folding his BB to an open raise from late position.
      I never used elephant, but ORL must mean openraise from late = attempt to steal the blinds
      PFR means preflop raise.You cant evaluate on the stat itself, it is combined with the VPIP and shows you how many hands is a player playing agressively.A good target is a player with high VPIP and low PFR.

      Agression-factor - shows the ratio beetween bet+raise and check+call, and shows how agressive is a player postflop. Anything below 2 is too passive(to be combined with loose-passive preflop stats in order to classify the perfect fish),and anything above 4 is too agressive. Keep in mind that those stats are really situation dependant and need a big sample size to be acurate.
      W$SD - won $ at showdown
      WTS - went to showdown.
      You are looking for high WTS(>25 for FR)in combination with loose-passive preflop stats and low AF. This player is usually going to have low to mid W$SD percentage.
      Like AF, you need to keep in mind that those stats need a big number of hands to be acurate.
      Hands is the total number of hands. Keep in mind that a minimum number in order to properly evaluate preflop stats is 50-100 hands, while for the postflop stats it must be >200-300.
      Additional useful stats are fold to continuation bet, agression by street and 3bet. You wont them for now though.
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      WOW! Thank U! That was very helpful!

      What fundamental things do U mean? Preflop play?

      And I cannot stand not to ask U.... Are U making a good living from poker? I mean i see that you are a good player!
    • darkonebg
      darkonebg
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 9,508
      Yes, I meant basics for preflop play, as starting hand requirements and positional awareness,and some basic postflop stuff as odds and outs.
      Its all in the bronze articles.
      Also be sure to check out the NLFR videos made for the low stakes by hansenbraten.They are very instructional and helped a lot of players improve their game.
      Visiting coachings is also a very good way to get a good grasp on things.Try it !

      About me. While I consider myself a decent player, I still realise I have a lot more to learn and improve. Poker is a really complex game, it needs hours and hours of studying, but the results are worth it.It was not very long ago when I was freshly starting player, just like you. You can read my blog for details.
      Good luck!
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      I think that most important thing in poker, after learning basics, is experience.

      Yeah, Ill read your blogs. Hope that youll kepp track of my thread :)
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      I have couple of questions:

      1. How can you determine it, since you dont know cards of opponent?
      Every formula for EV is based on it.

      2. In article "Short Stack Strategy: Continuation Bets for Advanced Players" for silver members, I dont understand cont. bet in position aggainst agressive players. (I cannot put text because its not allowed)

      EV = 17 % * $166 + 83% * $0

      EV = 17% * $166 + 0
      EV = $28.22

      If he goes all in on flop what to do? (calculate pot odds?)

      If we are aggainst other SSS player, do we change tactics?
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      Anybody? Nobody is repliing....

      I played SSS on marginal site (It isnt on PS list) and i got AA.

      I raised, one caller.
      Board 10, 3, 6 rainbow.
      He goes all in, I call.

      He got AJo.

      Turn: J

      River: J
      ?( ?( ?( ?( ?( ?( ?( :rolleyes: :rolleyes: X( X( X(
    • Mudrinjo
      Mudrinjo
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2008 Posts: 162
      Just to write something.

      Lately Im on tilt. Playing a lot (of bad) poker, but experience is experience.

      I think reason for my bad play, then tilt is - in informations from reading articles and watching videos about poker.
      Im overdosd by him, but still wanting to play. - thats a formula for downswing. :)

      EDIT: i almost forgoted... When Im winning, Im like give me more to learn, and when Im loosing - give me more to play!

      I dont know if I am the only one with that wacko psychology! :)
    • vhallee
      vhallee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.09.2008 Posts: 1,539
      Hello Mudrinjo,

      I really like the fact that you post what happens with your game. However, the reason you get little replies here is because this is not really the place to do that :)

      I suggest you create your own Poker Blog where you should write about how your poker career is going. This way the other users will be able to read it and give you advices ;)

      Best regards,
      vhallee
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