Question on the push-or-fold charts

    • deVall3y
      deVall3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2009 Posts: 554
      I understand AA-99, the first row, are the strongest hands you get for push or fold situations, so why do you need 13 BB's to push?
      If those hands are the strongest, shouldn't you push in a wider range of BBs'?

      If I could also get a brief explanation on how the position effects the required amount BB's for a push that would be great.
  • 10 replies
    • deVall3y
      deVall3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2009 Posts: 554
      Ok I was trying some ICM training and I understand anything and then I get
      75/150
      BU (6,320)
      Hero (930)
      BB (6,200)

      Hero has J7o , I fold, but I'm supposed to push with atc? I dont understand this
      (hero is first to act)
    • clicks
      clicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.08.2008 Posts: 61
      I'd like to know this too.
    • deVall3y
      deVall3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2009 Posts: 554
      The main confusion is about the pushing range, I think
      How do I know\learn it? Keep playing the ICM?
    • 2DHades
      2DHades
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2008 Posts: 515
      If you have more than 13BBs you should raise to 3bb/2.5bb not to push.

      When you are in the SB and the effective stack(the smaller stack) is under 10BB you should go all in versus thinking player because he will fold at least 80-85% of the time(OK, if he understands ICM this % could be smaller but even if it is 60% it is profitable to push with nearly all hands becausein the 40% when he calls you you would have 1/3+ chance to win the pot). So it`s +EV to go all in with ATC(any two cards) here.
    • deVall3y
      deVall3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2009 Posts: 554
      Ok thanks. I understand better now
      Can I check with the equilator what % the hand is at? How?
      and just to make sure: the push range x% is all the hands with atleast x% chance to win?

      oh I think I understand - I select the hand for one player and put random for another player, right? positions matter?
    • 2DHades
      2DHades
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2008 Posts: 515
      Originally posted by deVall3y
      Ok thanks. I understand better now
      Can I check with the equilator what % the hand is at? How?
      and just to make sure: the push range x% is all the hands with atleast x% chance to win?
      I don`t know about the equialator(don`t use it).
      The push range is the top hands with which you will go all in(in %).
      Look over this:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/glossary/Range
    • Hlynkinn
      Hlynkinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2008 Posts: 4,998
      use push or fold with 13bb and less... Only raise 2.5bb against REALLY REALLY tight opponents..

      personally I shove with less than 15bb's since with 15bb there is no room for play...

      Just train a bunch with the ICM trainer and when you get gold you can read an article about the math behind ICM...

      It's pretty much just:

      - How good your hand is doing against opponents calling range

      - How much % of the time opponent will fold to your push

      this is basicly what it is + some value of chip calculations and vs the prizepoll.... It's way more complicated but this could be a simple model of it :)

      and yeah for ranges calculations and stuff like that use the equialator or pokerstove or similiar softwares
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      raising to 2.5-3 BB with the top hands (instead of shoving) allows you to raise weaker hands aswell. If you push the monsters with 15BB but raise the "medium" hands like KQ, ... you'll get awfully readable.

      + You will often get value from villains trying to resteal. Resteal ranges are generally looser then call ranges.
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      Understanding ICM comes with time, practice and playing....

      Practice with ICM trainer and trainer lite... make sure you use the lite first cos it really helps build understanding and gives you a lot of the explanations as to why you are doing what you're doing...

      Also post hands and get other's opinions about pushing/calling ranges in specific spots...
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Originally posted by Hlynkinn
      personally I shove with less than 15bb's since with 15bb there is no room for play...
      I only start push/folding with 10 BB or less.
      With like 18-13BB I try to steal with 2.5BB raise with hands like KTs+, KJ+, 66+ from CO, BU or SB. When I get repushed I only call with AK and JJ+ probably. Between 13-10 I basically just wait and only push monsters or maybe steal a bit against too tight fishes.

      Personally I think that in the avarage single table SNG there is little room for post flop play except for the first few blind levels. It all gets decided in the push or fold part where the blindsteal is usually worth more chips than already a pretty big pot in the early stage. That's why I think the ICM is so important and your goal in the early stages should be just survival and stacking someone with a monster hand from time to time so that you can destroy your ICMignorant opponents latter..