Nash Vs Sng Wiz

    • Pairdrawer65
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 253
      I am playing super turbo's (9 players, each start with 300 chips and blinds increase every 3 min) to increase my understanding of icm.

      I am using Nash and Sng Wiz. But i found one mayor flaw in one of the two programs. because according to sng wizz i should push Aks, JJ+, first hand utg. (15-30) and according to nash i should push, TT+ ATs+ A5s-A4s AJo+ KTs+ KQo QJs. a huge difference. which should i trust. or what should be my range in this spot?

      Link to nash range please note the tight calling range.

      thanks in advance
  • 3 replies
    • Barin22
      Joined: 16.02.2008 Posts: 196
      This nash range is calculating with "perfect" calling ranges of all opponents and that is unreal between fishes on superturbos. Personally im pushing first hand UTG little bit looser than sngwizard says because of many low pair and Ax calls of my fishy opponents.
    • viewer88
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      nash is an "equilibrium range", it assumes the optimal call and pushrange from all your opponents (based on the ICM)

      Nash isn't always correct though, sometimes you have to make -EV pushes. The problem lies with the ICM which doesnt model sng's perfectly.

      I prefer the sng wizard, because you can set the call and pushranges for villain. It's bound to suggest better ranges.
    • LuborC
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      I've come to find out that Nash works a little worse with more people on the table and pretty well with few people.

      It's probably because it assumes that your opponents will not call you with hands like AKo or even AQo in early position when you pushed from UTG which they often do and you are behind and losing value to them. Of course it is also -EV to them because of the probability of someone behind them waking up with a monster but that is a different story..

      So neither of the approaches is perfect. Using just nash you will lose some money because of the not optimal play of your opponents and using just SNG Wiz you have to give your opponents the calling range yourself and can be pretty often wrong when guessing it.

      I actually think that you should either use both or if you need to pick one I would pick Nash, learn it and then push a bit tighter and in some spots rather with hands that are not so likely to be dominated. But of course the best option is to use Nash, SNG Wiz and your HEAD.

      Hope that helps at least a bit.