[NL2-NL10] Sss Nl25 Kk

    • DejaLoin
      DejaLoin
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2008 Posts: 78
      Hero:
      $4.75
      UTG2:
      $20.75
      CO:
      $13.30
      BU:
      $24.40

      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K:diamond: , K:heart:
      UTG2 calls $0.25, 3 folds, CO calls $0.25, BU calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.75, BB folds, UTG2 calls $1.50, CO folds, BU calls $1.50.

      Flop: ($5.75) 6:club: , A:heart: , Q:club: (3 players)
      Hero checks, UTG2 checks, BU bets $2.25, 2 folds, BU gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $5.75

      Easy fold by the book, I guess? It was terribly hard to fold this hand, tho. At the time I was just wishing I would have pushed preflop so I wouldn't have to deal with damn A's on the flop :tongue: . Would it be correct to push KK, AA preflop (even when the usual raise/reraise is not half of the stack)?
      I believe I've seen Ingol do it in coachings (correct me if I'm wrong)... I know I should have asked him when I saw that :baby: , but oh well...
  • 9 replies
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Yep, pushing preflop would be correct. Any raising hand you push from the blinds when there are 3 limpers before you or you would have to raise >35% of your stack.
    • mikelstwe
      mikelstwe
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2008 Posts: 156
      Yeah push preflop.

      Originally posted by burek2000
      ... or you would have to raise >35% of your stack.
      That's slightly disputable, but if you can explain it to me in terms of equity, I'll accept and understand it :) .

      I know you have fold equity, but if you were to push every hand from middle positions (e.g. on a loose table), wouldn't that rapidly reduce your fold equity as opponents determine your range and play accordingly?

      In your experience, has this play been profitable and at which limits in particularly?

      Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to learn that's all :D
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Hello DejaLoin,

      Pushing preflop is the most profitable method here with Kings :)

      Pushing against monkeys (3+) of them is the best thing because at least 1 has to call to make you more profitable than if you would raise to 4+3bb and have to fold/shove on the most ugliest board ever

      Also with 4 players in a pot is decreasing your winning chance

      Best regards,
      Gerv
    • mikelstwe
      mikelstwe
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2008 Posts: 156
      Originally posted by Gerv
      Hello DejaLoin,

      Pushing preflop is the most profitable method here with Kings :)

      Pushing against monkeys (3+) of them is the best thing because at least 1 has to call to make you more profitable than if you would raise to 4+3bb and have to fold/shove on the most ugliest board ever

      Also with 4 players in a pot is decreasing your winning chance

      Best regards,
      Gerv
      yeah I agree, but I was actually talking in more general terms (should have stated that more clearly)
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by mikelstwe
      That's slightly disputable, but if you can explain it to me in terms of equity, I'll accept and understand it :) .

      I know you have fold equity, but if you were to push every hand from middle positions (e.g. on a loose table), wouldn't that rapidly reduce your fold equity as opponents determine your range and play accordingly?

      In your experience, has this play been profitable and at which limits in particularly?

      Don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to learn that's all :D
      We're talking about playing in the blinds, where you're last to act and you have to invest more than 35% of your stack in to the raise. This means you would have to push any flop as a c-bet if you get called and for this reason it is better to just shove preflop. Any good player who will know your range will have to fold with his limping range and you will win 3 unraked BBs preflop, which is great.
    • mikelstwe
      mikelstwe
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2008 Posts: 156
      Ok understand the pushing 3-limpers from blinds concept.

      Now when would you push directly (according to 3-limpers/35% rules) from other positions on table?

      NB: leave out reraise ranges out for now.

      Thanks for your time :)
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      I would always push when there's a raise before me(except minraise) or there are so many limpers you have to invest 50%+ of your stack. Pushing from the blinds is due to OOP play postflop, but when you have the position it's better to tend to ordinary raise.
    • mikelstwe
      mikelstwe
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2008 Posts: 156
      So e.g. you wouldn't push AQ from say late position, with 3-limpers before or if bet was 35% stacksize.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by mikelstwe
      So e.g. you wouldn't push AQ from say late position, with 3-limpers before or if bet was 35% stacksize.
      With normal shortstack(20BB) the correct play would be raise to 7BB, not pushing, but with shorter stack you can consider pushing, e.g. 15BB.