Hold'em Poker For Advanced Players by David Sklansky & Mason Malmuth

    • JonasBUG
      JonasBUG
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      Joined: 13.12.2008 Posts: 2
      Hi,

      I've read some great reviews about this book and I'm thinking about reading it. Has somebody already read this book? And what do you think of it? Is it also useful for a No Limit player like me?

      Greats,

      Jonas
  • 18 replies
    • adr0001
      adr0001
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      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      Originally posted by JonasBUG
      Is it also useful for a No Limit player like me?
      HPFAP is a fixed limit book. Since NL and FL are very different I don't think is useful for a NL player.
    • JonasBUG
      JonasBUG
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      Joined: 13.12.2008 Posts: 2
      Thanks, I think I might give No Limit Hold'em Theory and Practice by David Sklansky and Ed Miller a try then :)
    • adr0001
      adr0001
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      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      I've read some fragments of this book and it's awful. One of the worst poker books I've read. A lot of bad(and very bad) advice in it. Don't waste your money buying this book(and your time reading it). I wouldn't pay more than 2 cents for it.

      Some great advices I've read in this book(I didn't read all the book, I think there are many more):

      1)Suppose you have a pair of aces on the button, many players are in, the pot is very large, the flop comes J :club: 8 :spade: 7 :diamond: and they all check to you. The play is to also check! ?(

      2)When you are last to act and you are against an extremely aggressive player you should slowplay some hands that don't seem to merit this strategy. For example, suppose you start with A :heart: T :diamond: and the flop is A :spade: 6 :club: 2 :diamond: two people check, you are last to act, and one of your opponents is an extremely aggressive player. You should always check, whether you raised or just called preflop, because no matter what comes off, the extremely aggressive player will bet it on fourth street. ?(

      3)If you're playing against an opponent who cbets 100% of time: Our advice is to pretend that the top card isn 't there! Take it off the board, or turn it into a deuce in your mind, and see if you would still play. In other words if you have the Q :spade: T :heart: and the flop is A :club: 9 :diamond: 4 :spade: just change it to 9 :diamond: 4 :spade: 2 :club: If you do this you should be at approximately the right strategy for playing against super aggressive players who constantly take the pot odds on a steal or a semi-steal. (You would play in this spot since you have two "overcards" and a backdoor straight draw.) ?( That's exactly what the donks are doing, they pretend that the top card isn't there to find an excuse to call.

      4)Suppose the pot is many-handed and you get a free play in the big blind. You hold 7 :diamond: 2 :club: and the flop comes 7 :heart: 6 :club: 2 :spade: You check, planning to check-raise, but no one bets. ?( The fourth-street card is the Q :diamond: Again you check, planning to check-raise. ?(

      5)Let's look a little closer at AQ (and similar hands). If you hold hands like AQ in early position, you should probably not raise if you are in a game where your raise will fail to cut down the field. For your raise with AQ to be correct, you must be able to limit the pot to only a small number of players. ?(

      6)If you hold AQo in late position and a lot of players are in the pot, it is probably best to just call(if there has not yet been a raise). ?(

      And I didn't read all the book, only fragments of it. A lot of donks play according to the advices from HPFAP. This book is a bad joke. It should be taken out of the markets but is of course not done because of the money. Many NL players may buy this book because it doesn't explicitly say that it's a FL book.
      The only good thing about HPFAP is that you can find a free online copy, so new players will not have to buy the book if they want to read it. And if new players read this book that will mean more donks.
      I've heard that 2 good FL books are "Limit Holdem: Winning Short-handed strategies"-Terry Borer, Lawrence Mak, Barry Tanenbaum and "Winning in Tough holdem Games"-Stoxtrader. So if you want to buy a good book buy one of these books not HPFAP.
    • opal99
      opal99
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      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by adr0001
      3)If you're playing against an opponent who cbets 100% of time: Our advice is to pretend that the top card isn 't there!
      Why the hell this wasn't implemented into our advanced articles???

      I need to try it tonight! :D
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
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      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by opal99
      Originally posted by adr0001
      3)If you're playing against an opponent who cbets 100% of time: Our advice is to pretend that the top card isn 't there!
      Why the hell this wasn't implemented into our advanced articles???

      I need to try it tonight! :D
      What if you paired the top card? :(
    • opal99
      opal99
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      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Originally posted by opal99
      Originally posted by adr0001
      3)If you're playing against an opponent who cbets 100% of time: Our advice is to pretend that the top card isn 't there!
      Why the hell this wasn't implemented into our advanced articles???

      I need to try it tonight! :D
      What if you paired the top card? :(
      then you have just overcard :P

      Anyway, it doesn't work... Sklansky owes me $180 :evil:
    • roswellx
      roswellx
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      Joined: 05.12.2008 Posts: 599
      :) )) some books are written to shape players in order to have mass predictable players. Thus profit can be maximized :P
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
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      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      Hah, a bunch of young punks commenting on a book that was written before they could even read.

      You guys are so cute. :D
    • opal99
      opal99
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      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by tokyoaces
      Hah, a bunch of young punks commenting on a book that was written before they could even read.

      You guys are so cute. :D
      Thanks for explanation :rolleyes:

      I almost thought I'm better player than Sklansky...
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
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      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by tokyoaces
      Hah, a bunch of young punks commenting on a book that was written before they could even read.

      You guys are so cute. :D
      Who are you calling young?! Thanks mate!!!

      You are so cute! :D
    • bordzter
      bordzter
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      Joined: 03.08.2008 Posts: 143
      is this all true??? am planning on reading some poker books to augment my review...
    • opal99
      opal99
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      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      it's OK to read some books, but think about what you read there and don't follow all advices blindly ;)

      I have no idea what you play but you can find more than enough articles up to Platinum status here, so you won't have time to read & study anything else imo.
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
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      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      Originally posted by opal99
      Thanks for explanation :rolleyes:
      I've taken so many literature classes that I feel like I should get a minor in literature. (My major is business, but all my elective credits have been in literature classes.) The most important thing we learned is to get a context for a book before you start to read it.

      As near as I can tell the book was first published sometime in 2001. Although online poker existed it was still in its infancy and the book is written entirely from the perspective of playing in live tournaments. Furthermore I think we can safely assume that it is generally talking about live tournaments played in Las Vegas.

      So I don't understand why it is a surprise that this book might not have any useful information for playing an online poker tournament in 2009.

      On the other hand the fact that this book introduced the Gap Concept, something that is extremely important and even mentioned in PS.com strategy articles, means it is worthy of respect. Even if that respect is only historical.

      Originally posted by opal99
      I almost thought I'm better player than Sklansky...
      Many players are. As far as I can tell he makes his money selling books and not playing poker. However one bad hand example doesn't invalidate all of his theories in an instant.
    • p0kerQT
      p0kerQT
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      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,300
      Originally posted by Waiboy
      Originally posted by opal99
      Originally posted by adr0001
      3)If you're playing against an opponent who cbets 100% of time: Our advice is to pretend that the top card isn 't there!
      Why the hell this wasn't implemented into our advanced articles???

      I need to try it tonight! :D
      What if you paired the top card? :(
      made me lol :D
    • opal99
      opal99
      Black
      Joined: 05.02.2008 Posts: 8,270
      Originally posted by tokyoaces
      I've taken so many literature classes that I feel like I should get a minor in literature. (My major is business, but all my elective credits have been in literature classes.) The most important thing we learned is to get a context for a book before you start to read it.

      As near as I can tell the book was first published sometime in 2001. Although online poker existed it was still in its infancy and the book is written entirely from the perspective of playing in live tournaments. Furthermore I think we can safely assume that it is generally talking about live tournaments played in Las Vegas.

      So I don't understand why it is a surprise that this book might not have any useful information for playing an online poker tournament in 2009.

      On the other hand the fact that this book introduced the Gap Concept, something that is extremely important and even mentioned in PS.com strategy articles, means it is worthy of respect. Even if that respect is only historical.
      Ehm... maybe you didn't pay enough attention in so many classes or you missread the title of this book, but THIS is about Fixed Limit Hold'em, nothing about live/online tournaments ;)
      You're right about 8 years difference but it doesnt change the fact, that it's not the best book to read...
      No one tries to write review here.

      Originally posted by tokyoaces
      Originally posted by opal99
      I almost thought I'm better player than Sklansky...
      Many players are. As far as I can tell he makes his money selling books and not playing poker. However one bad hand example doesn't invalidate all of his theories in an instant.
      it was sarcasm
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
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      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by tokyoaces
      Originally posted by opal99
      I almost thought I'm better player than Sklansky...
      Many players are. As far as I can tell he makes his money selling books and not playing poker. However one bad hand example doesn't invalidate all of his theories in an instant.
      it was sarcasm
      Sarcasm? Sarcasm? No, can't be - there is no sarcasm in these forums. :f_rolleyes:
    • OlivierLu
      OlivierLu
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      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 5,524
      I start the read of this book one month ago.

      This is definitively not the best book about poker. And yeah, that's a fixed limit book, so don't buy it if your a NL or tournament player.

      Sklanksy is an "old style" player. He never talks about equity or mathematic argument. His argue are some kind of "what he think I think if I play like that..." not worth it imo...
    • MikeyH
      MikeyH
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      Joined: 08.10.2008 Posts: 181
      Originally posted by adr0001
      3)If you're playing against an opponent who cbets 100% of time: Our advice is to pretend that the top card isn 't there! Take it off the board, or turn it into a deuce in your mind
      Not reccomended while playing 2 :spade: 2 :heart: :D