*Originally posted by la55i*

I think it makes sense that you only pay insurance when you win the pot, but I think you have another error in your calculations.

Your pot equity with insurance:

($20.05 - $1.77) x 85% + $10.00 x 15%

I think you don't win (20.05 - 1.77) 85% of the time... You win 20.05 85% of the time and from that you always lose -1.77..

So in my mind it goes like this:

[($20.05 x 85%) - 1.77] + ($10.00 x 15%) =

17.0425 - 1.77 + 1.5 =

16.7725$

If you calculate it this way, it means you always take away 1.77. Even when we lose... It doesnt matter if its in brackets with the winning odds or not

Heres a picture of a guy that lost an insured hand. The pot was HU with 10 cents overlay from the BB. So they stacked off (5.48-0.10)/2 =

** 2.69 each** And he ended up with his starting stack. IDK what his insurance price was though...

But I also played a short-stacked 4-way pot. I was all in for 0.85 stack, the pot was 3.50 heads-up after 2 of the villains folded to the flop bet of the third one.

I had 71.34%.

They offered me to pay

** 0.35** to save my

** 0.85**. Meaning that if I lose the pot I will

**remain with 0.85** and

**not 0.50**
Anyway I won the pot and got 3.05. 0.35 was the insurance and 0.10 was rake (the rake in PLO on N8 is 3%)

Here are some calculations:

Not insuring

71.34% x 3.50 =

**2.49690**
Paying the insurance only when we win:

71.34% x (3.50 - 0.35) + 28.66% x (0.85) =

2.24721 + 0.24361 =

**2.49082**
Paying it always:

71.34% x (3.50) + 28.66% x (0.85) - 0.35 =

2.4969 + 0.24361 - 0.35 =

**2.39051**
It means we pay 1 bb in equity here. Kyyberi said its 2.6bb. Thats kind of a big difference. While by only paying when we win, the result is consistent with my previous calculation.

**So in conclusion there is no juice when you insure your hand and you dont pay insurance when you lose the hand ** (the "juice" is actually like half a cent because they round the numbers in their favour which is reasonable).