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SSS - when to go all in on a re-raise?

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Hi,

      I'm having trouble with understanding the rational behind the rule for when you fold if someone re-raises after you have already raised when using the short stack strategy.

      I understand it depends on the ratio between your original raise and the stack you have left. However, I would like to understand the logic behind the rule.
      Grateful for any responses!

      Tim64
  • 6 replies
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hey Tim64,

      Although it will most likely become clear to you as you read more articles (on Odds and Outs / Equity / Pot Odds) I will give you a short break down :)

      There are two factors deciding the decision of whether you go all-in or fold:

      #1 The Pot Odds (in this case already invested money vs money you will still need to invest)
      #2 Your Equity against his probable range

      If your pot odds are good enough (so you have already invested a large part of your stack- and have to call a relatively small amount to win a large pot) - then you will often, even if you are behind against his range, have the needed equity to make calling profitable. That means your hand wins around 40% of the time against the hands he would go all-in with / but you have 1:4 pot odds - calling would be very profitable.

      If you need an example please say so - me or someone else could put up a calculation for you :)

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Thanks, that's very helpful indeed.

      I would certainly appreciate a practical example, if it's not too much trouble.

      Many thanks in advance!
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hey Tim64,

      I hope I don't overdo it by posting this hand from Xarry2's advanced SSS coaching review - but this is an advanced example from practice:

      Hand (reviewed by Xarry2):

      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $200
      MP3:
      $881.84

      5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T:club: , T:heart:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $35.00, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $110.00, 5 folds.

      Final Pot: $160.00


      In this hand I get raised by a TAG. I haven't got many hands from him but nevertheless I can put him on some possible ranges:

      - JJ+, AK if he knows that I'm playing SSS and adjusts his reraising range to my tight open raising range

      - TT+, AQ+ which would imo be the standard reraising range from an aggressive TAG vs MP1 open raises

      - 99+, AJs, AQ+ would be possible but is without further reads very loose imo

      Equity against these ranges:

      vs JJ+, AK: 33,7%
      vs TT+, AQ+: 40,3%
      vs 99+, AJs, AQ+: 44,9%

      Let's now take a look at the pot odds in order to determine when we can call.

      200+35+12 / 165 = 1.5 : 1 which equals 40% break even equity.

      Against the first range we have an easy fold. Against the second we could call with a very marginal edge. Now I want to calculate the EV of such a call and discuss it considering that the variance is immense and that we haven't got many hands from MP3.

      EV = 247$*0.403 - 165$*0.597 = +1.036$ or 0.1BB!!!!

      I don't like such calls. I rather want to make a weak fold than calling for very marginal profit with high variance and less information.

      Against the third range our EV would be:

      EV = 247*0.449 - 165*0.551 = 19.998$ or 2BB

      If this range was mare likely and if I had more hands I would call here. If I consider that I will probably only play against these range in 10-20% our winnings decrease againt to 0.2-0.4BB.

      Rather make a weak fold than a close call!

      ----


      Hope to have given you some more insight :)

      Best regards
      SoyCD
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Hi Soy,

      Thanks for the detailed response. I'll digest it when I have a moment and get back to you with any queries.

      Thanks again in the meantime.

      Tim
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Hi again SoyCD,

      Can you explain why the Pot odds are: "200+35+12 / 165 = 1.5 : 1"

      I thought Pot odds were ratio of current pot size (165) to cost of call (75 (his raise of 110 minus our raise of 35)), i.e. 165:75 = 2+:1.

      What am I missing? :)

      Thanks,
      T
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hello Tim64,

      Since you are playing SSS continuing with the hand means going all-in. That means you don't just need to call but actually invest the rest of your stack. Therefore the calculation is a bit different :)

      Best regards
      SoyCD