iPoker needs to offer self-exclusion for the side casino

    • SalamiandCheese
      SalamiandCheese
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      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      I'm sure I'm not the only who has been tempted by the side casino at Titan or Mansion, or both in my case. :rolleyes:

      Well, long story short, back before I joined pokerstrategy, made a deposit of $50 into an iPoker site around May. I was going to be moving and didn't expect to have an internet connection for a while so I took the last $35 and went to the roulette wheel. I won $400, cashed-out $350 and took another spin which lost of course.

      Fast-forward to October, I decided to take some of my poker winnings (by this time I earned about $600 from poker over 3 months or so) and try the wheel again. I won several hundred. Great! Well, not really. Of course I'm going to get greedy and keep playing after the successes. Well, of course I played off and on for a while, and quit that around the beginning of December after a couple close calls will losing big time, and managed to walk away with no loss, plus or minus $50 or so.

      Now, the last couple days I started it again and I'm down $200. This really sucks because I cashed out around $550 a couple weeks ago to pay off the remaining balance owed for my schoolbooks, which is nice of course, and left $450 for poker. I was at $615 until I lost at the freakin' roulette table making 2:1 bets.

      Ahhh well, at least the loss was from money set aside for high risk but damn! I would really like to move on to 1/2 FL-SH sooner than in a month or two.

      And I'm leaving all sites with a side casino that I cannot self-exclude from forever. So I'll be going to Stars or maybe Party (depending on their self-exclusion policy), and maybe get the Betfair rakeback account going - I've already looked into the self-exclusion policy and it looks pretty good.

      Here's my graph since I switched to FL "full-time". Yeah, there's no reason for it in this post - I just want to show it off. :D

  • 34 replies
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      self control is very important to be a succesfull gambler ( yes, poker is also gambling)

      very nice graph btw.
    • SalamiandCheese
      SalamiandCheese
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      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      Yeah, there's a gambling element in poker no matter how much of a proven professional you are, which I am not but I hope to get there sometime in the future.

      As for self-control, depositing into a site where I have access to a side casino is a necessary move. It makes no sense to play where there's a side casino since I've proven to myself that I can't keep away from the casino until I take a big loss, I'm just too greedy!
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      options -> hide casino games :)
    • SalamiandCheese
      SalamiandCheese
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      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      Hide casino games isn't gonna work! It just makes it four easy clicks to get to the games instead of one.

      It's too bad that I've haven't seen more replies on this thread. I'm hoping on getting some community support to pressure the iPoker sites to offer a self-exclude option instead of a "hide casino games" option.
    • viewer88
      viewer88
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      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      options-->advanced--> stop being a degenerate

      Don't take this the wrong way, but you shoulden't even be playing poker if you have a gambling problem (because that's what it is). Its dangerous and addicting.

      grt,
      viewer
    • SalamiandCheese
      SalamiandCheese
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      Pretty strong comments coming from an SnG player. SnG's are the closest poker game to pure gambling. Pushing any two from the SB etc, yes it's based on a theory plus good reads in the end-game but in a $50 sng for example you are basically risking at least $100 on the outcome of that all-in push. You're basically making a bet that may be + or - EV, and you can't tell the difference because there is always incomplete information (uncertain range, etc) that cannot be plugged into ICM. If you are a "lucky" player then you will make the +EV decision considering all information (which is still unknown) more than the -EV decision. There are plenty of poor performing SnG players who are unlucky in that their particular set of schemata for choosing in these situations chooses -EV more often than +EV.

      Anyways, I'm getting out before there is a bigger problem with the casino games. It is dangerous. I have no problem with poker. Sometimes it takes some effort just to get two hours a day in and I haven't made any crazy beyond my bankroll moves, which is good. :D
    • viewer88
      viewer88
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      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      ? That sounds like bullcrap?

      Sng's are variance heavy, but they are definatly not gambling. On a relevant samplesize the best player will always win the most money.

      You can even calculate the best move (with sng power software) for most situations... how can that possibly be gambling?

      Give me a break here, I'm trying to help you (true.. my comment might have been harsh), but I refuse to be called a gambler by someone who loses his money on a roulette wheel.
      You lack some basic fundamentals for being a long-term winning player imo, that's why I told you to be carefull.
    • PokerHammer
      PokerHammer
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      Joined: 26.08.2007 Posts: 209
      Originally posted by viewer88
      options-->advanced--> stop being a degenerate

      Don't take this the wrong way, but you shoulden't even be playing poker if you have a gambling problem (because that's what it is). Its dangerous and addicting.

      grt,
      viewer
      +1

      If you can't resist the casinos then you have a gambling problem.
    • CoreySteel
      CoreySteel
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      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 3,366
      "Pretty strong comments", yeah... But they're true...
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      also think that ipoker casino is rigged.

      even if it's not rigged is also not a good invesment ;)
    • SalamiandCheese
      SalamiandCheese
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      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      @Coreysteel
      1. I didn't deny that there is a gambling problem here.

      @viewer88
      You say poker is gambling then it is not gambling. More than half of my response was the "sng power software" you referred to but somehow you missed that completely...

      This thread is quickly missing it's point... ahh well... off to Stars I go.
    • Kimber88
      Kimber88
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      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 1,333
      Originally posted by alejandrosh
      also think that ipoker casino is rigged.

      even if it's not rigged is also not a good invesment ;)
      There's no reason to rig a casino. The house always has an edge.

      Only Blackjack is beatable, but that's not allowed :D (online that's not the case of course - I believe there's a reshuffle every hand)
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
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      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      yes, blackjack should get shuffled every hand since it's very easy to do that online. as I said even if the rullete is not rigged the casino will always have an edge ( if they rigg it just a little bit, they have even more :P )
    • Vargan
      Vargan
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      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 565
      Originally posted by SalamiandCheese
      Pretty strong comments coming from an SnG player. SnG's are the closest poker game to pure gambling. Pushing any two from the SB etc
      This was funny to read. Every single time you sit down at a standard Sit-N-Go table you have a 33.5% of cashing by the end of the
      tournament. Every time. And thats before you apply personal edge and strategy. And I rarely push ATC from the SB. :tongue:

      Originally posted by SalamiandCheese
      This thread is quickly missing it's point... ahh well... off to Stars I go.
      Awesome. :D
    • viewer88
      viewer88
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      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      Originally posted by SalamiandCheese
      @viewer88
      You say poker is gambling then it is not gambling. More than half of my response was the "sng power software" you referred to but somehow you missed that completely...
      Poker CAN be gambling, but with me it's never a gamble ;)

      No I'm just saying, I can imagine that people with a gambling problem see the same addicting gamble factor in poker.

      BTW I think YOU missed the point of the SNG power software completely. the software is all about average values, the luck factor is evened out completely over a large samplesize.
      You are talking about short-term variance, which I imagine is a typical view for people with a gambling problem (no offence).
    • SalamiandCheese
      SalamiandCheese
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2008 Posts: 569
      Wow, that's some real deep thinking theory you have Vargan.
      Vargan = The next great poker strategist.

      @viewer

      Yes, I know all about ICM and assigning a range to your opponents to calculate the better move in the push/fold phase. If you think it's really that simple then just buy or build your own poker bot. If you think it's really that simple you're also too naive to understand that you are in fact gambling until you have played enough sngs to be able to declare that your winrate is an empirical fact and that your winrate will be >0 for, well, forever, really. Until then you're just hoping that that unknown outcome will be a favorable one, ie. gambling.
    • 8979687
      8979687
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      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Originally posted by SalamiandCheese
      Wow, that's some real deep thinking theory you have Vargan.
      Vargan = The next great poker strategist.

      @viewer

      Yes, I know all about ICM and assigning a range to your opponents to calculate the better move in the push/fold phase. If you think it's really that simple then just buy or build your own poker bot. If you think it's really that simple you're also too naive to understand that you are in fact gambling until you have played enough sngs to be able to declare that your winrate is an empirical fact and that your winrate will be >0 for, well, forever, really. Until then you're just hoping that that unknown outcome will be a favorable one, ie. gambling.
      In Defense of us SNG players... and all players of the great game of poker in all of its forms.

      It is gambling gambling gambling, and gambling.

      But as I have said before, using a site like this makes it responsible gambling provided you
      actually follow the guidelines you are taught like BR management and when to risk or
      invest your chips and when to lay down those KKs.

      I got to say, you have a problem with the roulette wheel, a different form of gambling.
      But you A) came right out and admitted it, looking for advice, and B) Want to find a site
      where you can no longer access it.

      I think this shows that you have the restraint to become a great poker player.
      It is like when one quits smoking. They would be better off to find a place to go
      that bans smoking when they go out for fun. This way they are not exposed to their
      vice. And yet because they quit smoking does not mean they must quit drinking too...
      so a smoke free bar could be your haven as would a poker site not sticking that dam
      casino in your face all the time.

      Proper BR management means not throwing wads of your BR on a wheel.... and you are
      willing to follow that. Poker stars has no casino site. Not even a little BJ window on
      your tables.

      You can also check the options out there is somthing there about restricting things though
      I have never bothered checking them out.

      I wish you luck in your quest and admire your honesty in your open request for advice and help.

      I recommend stars or Full Tilt. Good Bonus on Tilt, and stars has awsome VIP program.
      Neither to my knowledge have casinos.
    • samiow
      samiow
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      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 37
      Couldn't agree more, I am a succesful poker player up to 5/10 NL and PLO over 100k hands but I have a huge blackjack leak, IPoker nearly skinned me alive but im still kicking ;)
    • TheBrood
      TheBrood
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      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,383
      The house always wins if you play casino. So why play? Probably to feel a thrill of some sorts.
      In the long (or short) run, you will lose all your money invested.
      Maybe making a BRM rule for casino is in order?
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