GET YOUR THINKING CAP ON - hand scenario

    • sabo999
      sabo999
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2008 Posts: 502
      Stack : 23'000 Blinds : 150/300 Avg Stack : 12'000
      Your Hand J :heart: 7 :heart: (BU)

      You Limp, As does MP1 and CO, The Blinds also join the action..

      Flop = T :spade: 8 :heart: 7 :club: It Checks to You and You Check also.. Turn = 4 :heart:

      SB Bets Out 700 at the 1'500 pot (so just over half the pot)

      It's folded to you, and you call..you know SB is prone to overbet top pair and will almost never flod a draw, although he's not crazy..
      River = 2 :heart:

      Giving you the flush..

      SB bets 1'400 in to 2'900, which you reraise to 2900 total, hoping to get paid off by a weaker hand..But the SB comes over the top all-in for 7'000

      What Would YOU Do and Why??


      Sabo :club:
  • 10 replies
    • sabo999
      sabo999
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2008 Posts: 502
      Im Confused myself ...

      I'd be inclined to make the call giving that only 3 flushes (K,Q,A) are beating me and he could well make this move with any two hearts of a lesser value given the read that he is prone to overbet hands.

      However, You need to take into account,

      Your Stack is 23'00 --

      After your re-raise on the river you have apprpx: 19'000 behind

      The 7'000 extra is going to leave you with 12'000 and less than average..

      Any responses will be appreciated, i look 4ward to hearing what you think..


      Sabo :club:
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      I think since you raised his river bet hoping to get a weaker hand to pay you off, the over the top all in would suggest you are beaten. After all, it is only the fourth best flush possible.

      Since you have showdown value, without the strongest hand, why not just call the river? As it is played, calling is just gambling, I think.
    • sabo999
      sabo999
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2008 Posts: 502
      that's cool .. i'm interested to see what everyone thinks..

      thanks for your response, it actually a scenario from a poker mag i read, they put a situation each month and then the answer next month .. just bought it 2day and read that scenario and thought i'd try get some feedback on here..

      if anyone's interested i could post some of the old scenario's and then after a few reply's post the answer's..

      SabO! :club:
    • nafar84
      nafar84
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      I don't see why I'd give him credit for a better flush. The article doesn't say that he's prone to betting flush draws on the turn OOP in a multiway pot. He must have at least had something on the turn. So I most likely interpret his turn bet and subsequent river shove as 5 :heart: 6 :heart: (made straight on the turn + flush draw), or a ten-high flush. In the case of the latter, maybe he was planning a check-raise on the flop with top pair (peculiar move I know, but I think it is consistent with our reads on him), but no one bets the flop so he bets the turn when he picks up a flush draw along with his top pair.

      As for why he would come over the top on the river with a ten or six-high flush, well, it is very possible that he decided that this is a good spot for him to double up or nothing, since the size of the pot when you reraise is 7,200. And if he just calls and loses he will be crippled anyway with only 4,000 chips remaining... which brings us to the next point...

      Are you sure that you have to call 7,000 on the river? Doesn't the phrase "all-in for 7,000" mean that he has 7,000 remaining after his initial river bet, making it 4,100 to call? Anyway, even if it's really 7,000 we have to call, I just can't see myself folding in this spot. If I lose I'm still 3,000 chips above the yellow zone, so it's not a complete disaster.
    • jmackenzie
      jmackenzie
      Silver
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      we dont know much about the competition thats being played or the oppenents.

      So either option is viable depending on the circumstance. Although in most cases I would call...
    • sabo999
      sabo999
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2008 Posts: 502
      Originally posted by nafar84
      I don't see why I'd give him credit for a better flush. The article doesn't say that he's prone to betting flush draws on the turn OOP in a multiway pot. He must have at least had something on the turn. So I most likely interpret his turn bet and subsequent river shove as 5 :heart: 6 :heart: (made straight on the turn + flush draw), or a ten-high flush. In the case of the latter, maybe he was planning a check-raise on the flop with top pair (peculiar move I know, but I think it is consistent with our reads on him), but no one bets the flop so he bets the turn when he picks up a flush draw along with his top pair.

      As for why he would come over the top on the river with a ten or six-high flush, well, it is very possible that he decided that this is a good spot for him to double up or nothing, since the size of the pot when you reraise is 7,200. And if he just calls and loses he will be crippled anyway with only 4,000 chips remaining... which brings us to the next point...

      Are you sure that you have to call 7,000 on the river? Doesn't the phrase "all-in for 7,000" mean that he has 7,000 remaining after his initial river bet, making it 4,100 to call? Anyway, even if it's really 7,000 we have to call, I just can't see myself folding in this spot. If I lose I'm still 3,000 chips above the yellow zone, so it's not a complete disaster.
      Good Point - when i was working out how much to call i was thinking it was 7K more, however i think your right the quote is "he loves all-in for around a further 7'000" so i think your most probably right that he has 7K more and the call is 4'100 - i like the read that he may have the made str8 with the flush draw which makes his bet seem pretty logical..
    • sabo999
      sabo999
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2008 Posts: 502
      Originally posted by jmackenzie
      we dont know much about the competition thats being played or the oppenents.

      So either option is viable depending on the circumstance. Although in most cases I would call...
      The Tournament is a Grand Final of a 3K Freeze Out GPUKT ..
      All's we know about the oppoent is that he'll never throw away a flush draw/str8 draw and will happily overbet top pair
    • jmackenzie
      jmackenzie
      Silver
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      sounds like a call to me then
    • Ka0s
      Ka0s
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2008 Posts: 722
      I call this anytime because a backdoor flush isn't that obvious and villian could have (flopped) a straight, have a set, maybe two pair and even a lower flush.

      Edit: I put some 2pair+ in his range because the way this hand was played I would be very very surprised if Hero has a straight here. So it's even a good board to bluff 4bet allin.
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      backdoor QKA flush over J high flush .... don't think so , call.