[NL2-NL10] NL20 Pot committed?

    • williamtywong
      williamtywong
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.01.2009 Posts: 123
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      UTG2:
      $28.96
      MP1:
      $13.84
      MP2:
      $7.59
      Hero:
      $3.70

      0.1/0.2 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with A:heart: , Q:diamond:
      UTG1 folds, UTG2 calls $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20, MP2 calls $0.20, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.40, 2 folds, UTG2 calls $1.20, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $1.20.

      Flop: ($4.70) 6:diamond: , T:heart: , 7:spade: (3 players)
      UTG2 bets $2.35, MP2 calls $2.35, Hero raises to $2.30 (All-In).

      Turn: ($11.70) 6:heart: (2 players)
      UTG2 bets $5.85, MP2 folds.

      River: ($17.55) J:diamond: (1 players)


      Final Pot: $17.55

      Was call on flop correct?
  • 7 replies
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      With3 limpers behind you you can push pre-flop with AQ or lower.

      Regarding being pot commited on flop, the Basic SSS article says: "If at the beginning of a betting round you have less than half the pot left, you go all-in no matter what."

      However I think one of the judges told me I could only be pot commited if I was heads-up. Judges, what do you say?
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Hi williamtywong,

      In position (BU) this is quite a dilemma whether to push or not. But always do the same thing with Aces but with a 19bb stack, i would shove preflop here.

      Postflop FOLD , you got 6 outs as most against 3 players. If one holds QT/AT/A7/Q7, you are toast with only 3 outs left. Against trips you are running dead.

      Standard strategy tells you to check/fold trash hands against multiple opponents. simply no c-bets/calls/shoves whatever involved.

      Best regards,
      Gerv
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Hey Gerv, I have a slight doubt about this pot commited thing.

      This is what we read on the Basic article "How do you play a trash hand":

      "If you raised pre-flop and at the start of the next betting round you already have less than half of the pot left, you also invest the remainder of your stack no matter what. Mucking your hand makes no sense as the pot is too big for that. "

      From this I had understood that, when I am pre-flop aggressor and my stack on flop is less than half the flop I should push no matter what as they say.

      You were pretty clear here:

      Originally posted by Gerv
      Standard strategy tells you to check/fold trash hands against multiple opponents. simply no c-bets/calls/shoves whatever involved.
      And what you said makes a lot of sense to me, it does sound unprofitable to push with just a couple of overcards in a multi-way pot. I'll follow your advice. But shouldn't they update this basic article? It tells people to push in such cases, if I got it right.


      EDIT: Oops! Here is what I was missing, from the same article:
      "You did not raise pre-flop or you have more than one opponent:
      You check and fold as soon as anybody else bets. "

      This explains it for me, sorry for my lack of attention! But still it seems this article could use a few corrections to become more clear. The "push no matter what" from the first quote could be a little confusing.

      ;)
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I rather save my 12 big blinds actually when someone makes a bet and someone calls

      If you were first-in to decide then yes you could go all-in but here, naw you got 4 outs which is 16% winning chance thus your share should be 16% of the pot
      With $2.3 left, the pot should be $14.375 to let you play profitable


      English articles are 'outdated' and need an update, we Dutch people already have the new one and its more clearer just be patienced when it is translated froM German to English ;)

      Cheers
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Yes, I will wait for the updates. Thanks!
    • williamtywong
      williamtywong
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.01.2009 Posts: 123
      Thanks so much for clarifying for me. I think my main mistake was forgetting that I was non-agressor vs. MORE THAN ONE OPPONENT.
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      But you are pre-flop aggressor! ;)