Pocket Pairs - possible leak in my game?

    • nafar84
      nafar84
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      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      I'm just going through some analysis for January in Elephant and I found that for pocket pairs 99-22 I've lost 407BB overall with a rate of -33BB/100. Is this normal variance or some serious leak?

      I play SH BSS NL10...

      - I always openraise 99-22 from any position, then contibet/fold unless I hit my set.

      - I call standard preflop raises and always fold on the flop unless I hit a set or I have an overpair.

      - I almost never call preflop 3bets.

      - I only try to isolate early limpers with 99-88... with other pairs I just limp along hoping to catch a set.

      So, what gives?
  • 8 replies
    • Dragar
      Dragar
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      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Raising is ok

      Your conti bet might not always be right.

      I would not conti bet into multiway pots or when there are multiple face cards or so. You need to observe villains calling range and then see if he might have hit the flop or not.

      I would isolate limpers with 22-99 since if your in position your conti bets are way more effective then out of position.
    • darkonebg
      darkonebg
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      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 9,508

      - I always openraise 99-22 from any position
      You got this right
      then contibet/fold unless I hit my set.
      Dont do it in multiway pots.Dont do it against calling stations.Dont do it on bad boards(QJTss).

      I call standard preflop raises and always fold on the flop unless I hit a set or I have an overpair.
      Pocket pairs are often cases not played only for set value. for NL10 its ok though

      I almost never call preflop 3bets.
      Better dont at NL10

      I only try to isolate early limpers with 99-88... with other pairs I just limp along hoping to catch a set.
      Isolate them IP with any PP.OOP you can complete/check 66-. Raise the mid ones for value though.

      All in all, I think they way you play is ok for NL10.There is a lot of room for improvement, but that should come with time.
    • nafar84
      nafar84
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      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Thanks.

      I will try to isolate more with any pp and see how it goes. I do generally tend to avoid cbetting into multiway pots and calling stations esp. oop. Good point about paying more attention to flop texture and likelihood of villain hitting it.

      Pocket pairs are often cases not played only for set value. for NL10 its ok though
      Sometimes I 3bet 88-99 or even 77 against regular TAGs' CO open raises when I have the button (or blind vs. blind), because I know that they have the ability to fold a lower pp/AQ/Axs/sc's... but yeah, I don't generally want to get too fancy with them at least until I move up hopefully.
    • radyan111
      radyan111
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      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 1,151
      I play NL10 FR as well and my 99-22 bring me 120BB/100hands and I play them pretty much just like you. I'm not isolating with 66- though, or I do it rarely. Never 3bet, never call a 3bet. I'm not folding them to a cbet on paired boards often even if I don't hit a set.
    • Dragar
      Dragar
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      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Originally posted by radyan111
      I play NL10 FR as well and my 99-22 bring me 120BB/100hands and I play them pretty much just like you. I'm not isolating with 66- though, or I do it rarely. Never 3bet, never call a 3bet. I'm not folding them to a cbet on paired boards often even if I don't hit a set.
      Try to isolate with 66-. You have tons of fold equity + TAGs will fold to conti bets. NL10 limps indicate small pocket pairs, suited connectors or one gappers.. rarely slow played monsters or AQ AK etc.. If its something like that just make a note on the player.

      It is good to float pocket pairs vs one overcard or facecard. If villain checks on the turn, and there is a draw open, you can try to take down the pot. If there are no draws its a bit more tricky since villain might be trapping (which is a very effective counter-play vs people who float), although I think this should be rare on NL10.
    • adr0001
      adr0001
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      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 271
      Originally posted by nafar84
      Sometimes I 3bet 88-99 or even 77 against regular TAGs' CO open raises when I have the button (or blind vs. blind), because I know that they have the ability to fold a lower pp/AQ/Axs/sc's... but yeah, I don't generally want to get too fancy with them at least until I move up hopefully.
      Why do you want to turn your hand into a bluff? If they fold lower pps, AQ, Axs, sc's, what hands weaker than yours don't fold? If they continue only with TT+ and with AK you are bluffing. You don't need 88-99 to bluff. You can do it with 22-66 or with suited connectors as well. 3betting from the button with 88-99 against a regular TAG who folds Axs,AQ,sc's and lower pp forces him to play correctly against you.
    • darkonebg
      darkonebg
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      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 9,508
      Originally posted by adr0001
      Originally posted by nafar84
      Sometimes I 3bet 88-99 or even 77 against regular TAGs' CO open raises when I have the button (or blind vs. blind), because I know that they have the ability to fold a lower pp/AQ/Axs/sc's... but yeah, I don't generally want to get too fancy with them at least until I move up hopefully.
      Why do you want to turn your hand into a bluff? If they fold lower pps, AQ, Axs, sc's, what hands weaker than yours don't fold? If they continue only with TT+ and with AK you are bluffing. You don't need 88-99 to bluff. You can do it with 22-66 or with suited connectors as well. 3betting from the button with 88-99 against a regular TAG who folds Axs,AQ,sc's and lower pp forces him to play correctly against you.
      I agree here. Its better to flat mid pairs and 3bet low ones against TAGs
      What I actually meant is that even if you flat and you dont hit your set, its not an automatic c/f.Board texture and opponent's range/ pf tendency play a huge factor.
    • nafar84
      nafar84
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      Joined: 20.09.2008 Posts: 546
      Okay, thanks for the tip, and yeah it does actually make sense. Thing is, I'm still in the experimental phase of playing against TAGs.... and it just seems more comfortable (and easier on my nerves :D ) to 3bet with 99-88 at this point just to get a feel for it. Isn't it also useful for preventing the fish blinds from joining in with hands like QJo to which my 9's are vulnerable?