A broken record spinning out of control

    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      So I'm back to playing poker. Have been since the start of this year now... and so I thought I'de start this blog-thingy again. However since I no longer play LHE I decided to make a new one. I'm playing Sit&Goes nowadays, poorly I might add, and not in the greater volumes either. So, not much hope for it :f_thumbsup: but I've never been the one for the good choices, so here we go.

      Oh, backstory.

      I'm a swede who used to play poker quite a lot, but back then LHE, with modest results I recon. I haven't really been playing anything for the last two years until this January when I decided to try Spin&Goes. I had a small roll left on stars that I thought would be sufficient for $0.25 spins.

      I started out looking at the strategies here on pokerstrategy and kept going from that, trying to grasp this new format. It is kinda frustrating to not "know" the play, like I do in LHE poker. I'm pretty good with ranges, and worked a lot with balance/"GTO" when playing LHE so I'm not lost to the concept, and should be better than the average $0.25spin-player. But I'm missing a lot of "feel", the norm of the format perhaps, that I had in LHE after the huge volume I played and the confidence that comes with it not only with my own game but the tendencies of the community playing the format. And an understanding and solid foundation for how to do the off-table-studies. Now when starting here I feel kinda overwhelmed with how to go about sorting out a strategy, because theres so much to be done. Its kinda like, trying to empty an ocean using a bucket and standing there thinking "hm :f_rolleyes: where do I start?".

      So I've decided not to look at it as an ocean and instead just go with it. You have to start somewhere I recon. The biggest different from LHE and NL is the betting, my brain tells me. Since it seems a lot, most of, the games is HU with 20bb+ stacks, or around that area, 10bb+ at least. So how do I go about this new thing? And what happens to the frequency of the bets? In LHE, playing 6max tables I didn't really have a check-range in the HU with initiative for example. I started to look at it, cause in balanced play you have to have one I recon, but the penalty for not having one wasn't that punishing. So LHE bet flop ~100% and turn ~70% river ~60% makes for a lot of betting. In NL, not so much it seems. I didn't have an open-limp range in LHE either, so thats a big difference to the ranges.

      So thats where I am atm, sorry for the wall. I had loads more to write but I figured that for a first post I'm already way past the accepted length of this. So gonna finish this of fast now. So results. Well I'm not doing to well atm and my roll is down to $19.50, doing -$7.6 after 645 games, but having an ITM of 37% which should be enough for breaking even if my calculations are correct, so I think I'm running bad as well. Not sure what the all-in adjusted really means, I've never bothered with it until I started playing this format. But my all-in adjusted chips is 42860 and my won is 30500... so is that a run bad as well? I don't know :f_grin:

      Im gonna quit here. I'll be back with more thoughts and progress(hopefully) Sorry for the massive wall of text :f_ugly:
  • 30 replies
    • rompas
      rompas
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.02.2014 Posts: 2,930
      Hi,

      Välkommen tillbaka ( welcome back) to poker :f_thumbsup:

      I see you play Spin& Gos so i would recommened you to take a look at Making a living with STT SNGs , a great guy that also play spin&Gos and that is really helpfull if you have any questions + also possible look at his Twich stream while hes study and play.

      If you have any questions dont hesitate to ask and Good luck at the tables :f_cool:
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      Tackar och thanks :f_grin: Will check it out
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      So an update of my "progress" this month. Its been going god awful. I'm -$15.50 after 580 games. Before rake back, thank god for the spin ball-thingy! Getting $0.5 to $0.75 back per day is a blessing when playing 0.25s indeed :f_grin: but I have been running really bad and my ROI is way lower than it should be I think. Downloaded a statistic to PT4 which gave me an evROI of 1.15%, which still isn't as good as I'de want to be running, but a lot better than the -10.69% that I have. And I think I've been really unlucky, and probably should be beating the $0.25s, so its a bit annoying to start of like this. But I also think its gotten me to work harder on my game. Still not as confident as I'de like to be, but I've been watching a lot of videos and reading up a lot. Playing on a mac btw so I don't have that many tools to use when analyzing which makes it tougher to study hands and ranges, but I'm looking in to that, and at times I get to borrow my girlfriends PC where I've got Combonator installed for looking at ranges :f_thumbsup: . Did watch the AMA with Alvaro which was really interesting to watch. Wish I had more experience, better result and a lot more time on my hand, cause then I'de probably try to apply to SpinLegends :f_cool:

      But as I said, not giving up yet. And I'm gonna do the bankroll challenge again. You can do that more than once right? Remember doing it a couple of years ago when playing LHE which I didn't finish. Gonna set that up tomorrow I recon. Time to sleep now. Early morning tomorrow :f_frown:
    • SvenBe
      SvenBe
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2006 Posts: 13,470
      This is Spart....i mean Bankroll Challenge!
      I assume you are from Sweden, based on the discussion before? If so, good job - having such a nice country. I loved Gothenburg a lot when i was there 2 years ago!

      CU,SvenBe
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      Yep. From Sweden this one. Actually lived in Gothenburg before. Love the place to :f_biggrin:
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      So reporting day monday. +$3,50 :f_cool: but not doing enough games this week. Aim is 200 per week, and my weeks start at thursdays, so only tuesday and wednesdays to go and I'm behind ~100 spins so...:f_rolleyes: but its been going well atleast :f_drink:
    • rompas
      rompas
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.02.2014 Posts: 2,930
      Good to see you are back on right track with + and good luck with your volume goal

      How is Sweden nowdays? havent been home for 10 years :f_rolleyes:
    • SmellTheCoffee
      SmellTheCoffee
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2008 Posts: 55
      Nice to see a profit last week, bests of luck for this week!
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      Originally posted by rompas
      Good to see you are back on right track with + and good luck with your volume goal

      How is Sweden nowdays? havent been home for 10 years :f_rolleyes:
      Thanks :f_grin: though I don't think I'll make the hands I planned this week. I'll get to that tomorrow. But Sweden is cold, as it usually is this time of year I recon, but we're all pretty sick of it. I mean its halfway through march almost, and after march theres april and that goes pretty fast with easter and what not, so yeah its practically may and its still snowing :f_mad: almost summer and theres still snow :f_rolleyes: yea. thats how sweden is nowadays :f_biggrin: Where've you gone off to?

      Originally posted by SmellTheCoffee
      Nice to see a profit last week, bests of luck for this week!
      Thanks! Hope I'll manage to keep it up :f_grin:
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      So it's time for an update regarding progress or the lack of. But I think there's been some progress. I hope so at least. Feel more comfortable with the game now I think :f_grin: Been working a lot with the fundamentals and ranges for certain spots, so I've been studying more than playing. But I've still got loads to do. Still don't have a range for sb in some spots when calling/limping is an option :f_ugly: Just been winging it. But I'll get to that. Kinda need to know the ranges you play when you later on start to get more advanced in the game plan, when coming down to combos at certain flops and what not. More of an advanced zero-strategy perhaps, which I haven't been working on that much. Mostly been working on exploitive play against weaker players in post-flop mode.

      This hand for instance. SB is kinda erratic and do bluff to much, so I've been playing kinda passive and calling down a lot of weak hands while playing strong hands trying to induce bluffs, as with this hand. The A is a great bluff-card for him. Now hes actually on a draw without any sdv but I still think hes over bluffing this spot so I recon its a value spot for me to c/c cause I think he might bluff any hand here. Had he been a more passive player I'de probably just go three streets value. But its a pretty standard spot I recon.

      PokerStars - 15/30 NL (3 max) - Holdem - 2 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      SB: 32.4 BB (VPIP: 63.64, PFR: 15.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
      Hero (BB): 17.6 BB

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:heart: T:heart:

      SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2 BB

      Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond: K:club: 4:club:
      Hero bets 3.13 BB, SB calls 3.13 BB

      Turn: (12.27 BB, 2 players) A:spade:
      Hero checks, SB bets 12.27 BB, Hero calls 11.47 BB and is all-in

      River: (35.2 BB, 2 players) 5:diamond:

      Hero shows K:heart: T:heart: (One Pair, Kings)
      (Pre 64%, Flop 80%, Turn 91%)
      SB shows 5:heart: 6:heart: (One Pair, Fives)
      (Pre 36%, Flop 20%, Turn 9%)
      Hero wins 35.2 BB


      Anyways, I've been looking at my red line as well. Been seing that people have a positive non-showdown winnings and I don't know how thats done. Mine is way down there among the weird fishes with tentacle-lamps and what not. But is it a showdown issue or a bluff issue? I recon both, folding to much and not bluffing in the right spots perhaps. Gonna have a look at it next week! Or when I have my ranges sorted...
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      So this weeks (week 2) BR update isn’t really precise. I’ve had money on my Unibet account but not enough to withdraw, so I just went for it and played hu sng for €1 and managed to get it up to €15ish which is the minimum withdrawal amount. And then I moved it all to my stars account. But only about half of it is winnings. And initially in euro so I had to do some calculations. But according to my calculations I ended up with +$8.42 but my BR now is $35.45, and it was $18.23, but not all is profit… I’ve also managed +$1.50 on spins over 42 games. Sad volume, but I’ve been really busy this week. All in all, +$9.92 this week :f_grin: But since I'm over $30 I'm gonna give $1 spins a go :f_tongue:
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      So I played some $1 spins today :f_grin: the good news is that they're pretty much like the $0.25, the bad news is that I still can't win :f_mad: just need to learn how to win in spots like this :f_mad:

      PokerStars - 15/30 NL (3 max) - Holdem - 2 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      Hero (SB): 27.63 BB
      BB: 22.37 BB (VPIP: 41.18, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 21)

      Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:club: K:diamond:

      Hero raises to 2 BB, BB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

      Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 9:heart: K:spade: 4:diamond:
      BB bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

      Turn: (12 BB, 2 players) 3:diamond:
      BB bets 12 BB, Hero raises to 21.63 BB and is all-in, BB calls 4.37 BB and is all-in

      River: (44.73 BB, 2 players) A:diamond:

      BB shows A:heart: 9:diamond: (Two Pair, Aces and Nines)
      (Pre 58%, Flop 20%, Turn 11%)
      Hero shows T:club: K:diamond: (One Pair, Kings)
      (Pre 42%, Flop 80%, Turn 89%)
      BB wins 44.73 BB

      My evROI is crazy high though. And I've heard thats the important thing :f_ugly: and my red line is ~0 now :f_cool:
    • SvenBe
      SvenBe
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 19.04.2006 Posts: 13,470
      Hi floaty,

      for the Spins it is all about getting in the volume to overcome the variance. This, of course provided that you are having winning stats.
      In case you have a negative EVROI, just hope for the luck :-)
      For the hand you posted - that is exactly how you make the money....
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      So, to the monday report of the bank roll challenge. I've only played 49 spins, but I've been working crazy hours this week so I really haven't had the time. This week should be better. Result wise I've been struggling but I've ended up +$1 by the end of it :f_thumbsup: anyways. Heres the report

      Week 3
      49 spin & goes
      +$1
      BR $36.45

      Oh, and I found out how to link pictures again :f_drink: so here is this weeks graph! Red line is almost at 0 :f_cool:

    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      So week 4 in the challenge done.

      I only played 35 tournaments. I only play one table atm so its difficult to get the volume, but 35 is low even for me :f_rolleyes: but I won, +$9 this week and I won a 10x :f_drink:



      Red line above 0 at one time there :f_biggrin: I have been checking other peoples graphs though, and it seems everyones redline is above 0 by a fair margin. So I recon I'm doing something wrong :f_frown: but will keep investigating :f_thumbsup: anyway. Hopefully will get a bigger volume for next week :f_grin: gonna try to do an update mid-week sometime
    • Tichwich85
      Tichwich85
      Silver
      Joined: 14.04.2012 Posts: 645
      Nice work!:f_thumbsup:
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      Originally posted by Tichwich85
      Nice work!:f_thumbsup:
      Thank you :f_grin:

      March review. Disappointing volume but results have been good. I've come to understand that the difference between $0.25 and $1 spins is 75 cents and thats pretty much it. Can't see any game play changes really or a tougher field. So I should be able to keep on winning I hope. I've been running good in march and my ROI is actually higher than my evROI I think. Which is fun cause that hasn't happened before. My ROI is ~10% and my evROI ~7,5%, but both are good so thats nice. Chips per spin is the same ev and result, so I've just been lucky with the multipliers. The sample is small however, so numbers can't be trusted :f_confused:

      I've decided to go back a bit in my strategy to be able to play more tables since volume is such a problem for me. I did some 3-tabling the last day of march and it felt ok. Might need a redo of my hud but other than that it seemed fine. But I like the idea of a simpler strategy in that sense, cause it will make multi tabling a lot easier. However, it is a bit to simple so I'm doing some adjustments to it. For instance the turn auto-bluff 2/3 pot is being reworked a bit. And a check range for the top of my range to balance the turn play and add some slow play. A limp range for hu and there will be river bluffs with hands lacking showdown value :f_thumbsup: after that I'm gonna try to get the volume in instead of fine tuning, just to see how it works out. So I'm gonna have it as the "main" strategy that I would use against an unknown, and then deviate to exploit, but still keeping fairly close to it. The idea is to be able to evaluate it later on and rework and improve it more and then keep doing that until it builds up to a strong solid strategy to deviate from. Or something like that :f_confused: rebuilding the base structure so you can build a higher and more stable tower or something:f_thumbsup:
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      Week 5 update

      Played 57 spins and lost $3 :f_frown: first week of loosing since the start of the br challenge I think. Did however have an evROI of 11.86% :f_cool:

      BR is currently $42.45

      To clarify the post before here. The strategy I am talking about is Collins Spin & Go strategy
    • floaty
      floaty
      Silver
      Joined: 13.04.2010 Posts: 935
      Week 6

      Only played 29 spins :f_frown: better luck next week. +$3 and a BR of $45.45

      Will play more next week promise! :f_wink:
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