Super Turbo Strategy...

    • PidKoker
      PidKoker
      Global
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 416
      Strategy
      Play patient and aggressive in the first two orbits, the blinds go up every 3 minutes in these turbo tournaments but you can afford to wait for an opportunity. When you find yourself with a big hand like Ace Queen, get your chips into the pot. There will be a lot of coin flip or 60/40 situations in all stages of these tournaments so take any opportunity to double up as long as you feel like you are ahead. I really prefer to be the one betting rather than calling with these marginal edges, but in these tournaments I can’t afford to lay down big hands pre-flop regardless of the action in front of me.

      Go all in Ace King, Ace Queen, and pocket pairs 10 and up.

      Double Up Early
      Full Tilt short stack sit and go tournaments are over in fifteen minutes, so find your spot to shove in the first few rounds. Doubling up early helps you play the bubble more comfortably, and posting a few blinds can make it tough to come back later. Opponents will call you with a wide range of hands, but that range gets to be almost any two cards if you only have 4-5 big blinds.

      If you happen to get a chip stack of over 1,000 chips at any given point, you should feel very comfortable approaching the bubble. With nearly 35% of the total amount of chips in play you can feel pretty comfortable making the money with 6 players left.

      With a stack of 1,000 or more, I will bet a large amount of hands to put pressure on the smaller stack players. A player with 200 chips and a big blind of 50 just won’t impact you that much, and there is a surprisingly large amount of fold equity in these tournaments. Raise hands like 78 suited and call any re-shove, we play to win.

      Buy-ins And Payouts
      Full Tilt offers these short stack tournaments in $3.80, $7.50, $15, $30, $45, and $75 buy-ins. In my experience the play gets looser as the buy-ins increase. I was quite surprised at how tight the $3.80 and $7.50 tournaments were playing!

      Each tournament plays down to a lone winner, and three spots are paid a portion of the prize pool.

      3rd place takes home two times the original buy-in, 2nd place takes three times the buy-in, and 1st place wins a hefty five times their tournament buy-in!

      Profit = Volume
      You might be asking, “Ok I get that I will need to win some flips, but how can I consistently profit from this tournament structure?” Good question, and the answer is simple: Volume.

      I play these tournaments to get in as many as I possibly can, I feel I have an edge on most players that enter these tournaments and plan to win a reasonable hourly rate by playing as many of these as possible. How many you can play per hour depends on your comfort level with multi-tabling, but most players can comfortably four table these all day long. Players can easily play 15-20 of these short stack tournaments every hour and the sky is the limit when it comes to your hourly rate.

      The key point to profiting consistently in these poker tournaments is to be the aggressor and pick your spots well. Use up your fold equity early on and get your money into pots with an edge. If you are putting your money into pots without being dominated you are going to win enough to allow you to play a big stack against weaker opponents, and that is a ticket to a nice hourly rate.

      The End Game
      Usually short handed play in turbo sit and go tournaments is very aggressive due to the size of stacks versus the relative size of the blinds. In the Full Tilt short stack tournaments you will be so used to aggressive play from earlier rounds the end game should come naturally to you. Short-handed specialists will do very well in these turbo tournaments because players will knock each other out of these tournaments very fast. Play your stack size and don’t fold any two high cards or pocket pairs because the play just isn’t deep enough.

      Overall I find these tournaments to be very soft at all levels and a great way to teach yourself how to play under pressure, the tournaments fill up in just a few seconds and most of the players are just looking to gamble which in my eyes make this tournament a great way to build a poker bankroll!
  • 14 replies
    • Abe1919
      Abe1919
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2008 Posts: 187
      You hit the nail on the head,great advice,i recently started playing a few of these and have found them pretty profitable.I expected them to be crazy donkfests(and to some extent they are)but if you play using those guidelines worst case scenario is 1 cash payout in 3 and if you win just 1 in 3 it's not a bad day!
    • miskokvo
      miskokvo
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,502
      maybe at 3,8-7$ but higher limits are pretty tought and wariance is up to 100BI so be avare



      sitting into 3-4 players whos knowing ICM is pretty suicade

      and they are incredibl boring ;/
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      I'm trying a similar strategy with these tournaments over at Mansion Poker. I figure using some fairly basic ICM should give enough of an edge to make money. I have been playing normal SNG's but they are so slow. And if I play tight until I am in push or fold they revolve around a coinflip anyway.

      I'm trying to draw up a rough chart so that I can play the game with less thought. A sort of SHC but instead of position using BB amounts as the criteria.

      The mansion format (for those interested) starts with 1500 chips but the blinds increase every minute. It gets high pretty fast.
    • PidKoker
      PidKoker
      Global
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 416
      The mansion ones are complete suicide in my opinon because the blinds go up so quick; i played one where the first hand was dealt to my left and by the time I had to pay my first BB i had 3 BBs left and i had to shove KJo UTG got called by KQo in the SB and i still had the 1500 starting chip stack because I wasnt dealt any real playable hand. Also about using a SHC I dont think that is so great because of the fact that you should be adjusting your pushing range to "fit" a specific opponent.

      As for BRM for Super Turbos should be like 250BuyIns at the least just because they can be swingy at time and like said by miskokvo variance can be up to if not more +/-100BI's so be aware.
    • Barin22
      Barin22
      Silver
      Joined: 16.02.2008 Posts: 196
      Just two small corrections.

      1.With a stack of 1,000 or more, I will bet a large amount of hands to put pressure on the smaller stack players. A player with 200 chips and a big blind of 50 just won’t impact you that much, and there is a surprisingly large amount of fold equity in these tournaments. Raise hands like 78 suited and call any re-shove, we play to win.

      This is not true, u still have to just use ICM and push or fold, when u have 1k chips and blinds are 25/50 usually everyone still have under 10 blinds. So raise-calling with hands like 78s is bad.

      2.
      3rd place takes home two times the original buy-in, 2nd place takes three times the buy-in, and 1st place wins a hefty five times their tournament buy-in!

      there are 9 players at the table so 1st - 4.5x buyin, 2nd - 2.7x buyin, 3rd - 1,8x buyin (standard sng paying structure)
    • viewer88
      viewer88
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2008 Posts: 5,545
      This is a nice article, I don't really know about super turbo's buth this looks like decent advice? :p

      +1 sticky
    • cyzo
      cyzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.07.2008 Posts: 117
      I saw that article online once. It honestly just looks like something someone made up on a whim, though the advice is pretty accurate. For the $3.50+.30s, I just practice ICM with a large Hero's Edge.
    • Alverine
      Alverine
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      Originally posted by cyzo
      I saw that article online once. It honestly just looks like something someone made up on a whim, though the advice is pretty accurate. For the $3.50+.30s, I just practice ICM with a large Hero's Edge.
      Why large hero's edge? A small +EV is dangerous?
    • cyzo
      cyzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.07.2008 Posts: 117
      At the lower limit super turbos, you lose a lot of fold equity due to the unmerited looseness of the average player there. This diminishes expected value in close situations and increase your return on premium hands, so I practice a slightly tigher strategy than the ICM trainer would suggest at default settings. For me, I believe that adjusting hero's edge to represent your skill edge versus other players in a push-fold tournament is an effective strategy. Of course, pushing even more loosely is correct when you find yourself against tight players. While they are too loose during earlier stages, the players tend not to push as often as they optimally should during the late stages of the tournament, so you can steal a lot of blinds and have a very nice hu winrate just comparing the estimated $EV of a push vs a fold, giving yourself a nice edge based upon fold equity.
    • Alverine
      Alverine
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      This diminishes expected value in close situations and increase your return on premium hands


      It makes totally sense. I was starting thinking this on my own. Very often I lose some stack with AK on early stage. I raise, multiple players call it and if I didnt hit the flop, I have to fold, loosing a good portion of my stack.

      Your startegy is to make a bigger raise (instead 3xBB, make it 5xBB) for premium hands and play cautiously with other hands?
    • ovechkin91
      ovechkin91
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.06.2008 Posts: 201
      my advice: dont play these sngs. Your edge is much bigger in normal sngs. And even bigger in cash games
    • cyzo
      cyzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.07.2008 Posts: 117
      Originally posted by Alverine

      Your startegy is to make a bigger raise (instead 3xBB, make it 5xBB) for premium hands and play cautiously with other hands?
      As you start with only 10BB, I would be pushing all-in immediately at the early stages, though I would consider alternate ways of playing KK or AA.



      I think that it is possible to have a decent edge here. Thusfar, my ROI is ~20% at Full Tilt and much larger on pokerstars, though I expect both values to be higher than the values having played, for example, 10,000 tournaments. Still, it looks quite nice, especially given that I am a cash game player and have made most of my money there. The point at which I switched from turbo and HU sngs to hyper-turbos should be clear in the following image:

      [img]http://www.sharkscope.com/SharkScope/DisplayGraph?GraphType=UserHistory&u1=ubnco&Network=pokerstars&Username=sswebsite&Password=&Currency=USD&TimeZone=3&ClientTimeZoneValue=5&searchTag=530.3193501189395&GraphWidth=540&GraphHeight=420&nocache=1234818516642&version=250[/img]
      (http://www.sharkscope.com/SharkScope/DisplayGraph?GraphType=UserHistory&u1=ubnco&Network=pokerstars&Username=sswebsite&Password=&Currency=USD&TimeZone=3&ClientTimeZoneValue=5&searchTag=530.3193501189395&GraphWidth=540&GraphHeight=420&nocache=1234818516642&version=250) will hopefully work if the image does not display correctly.

      Obviously, a sample size of ~50 on pokerstars and ~100 on full tilt is nothing to draw long-term conclusions from, but other players here have played the volume to show that these are profitable games, and I am confident that I should, theoretically, have an edge in these.
    • Barin22
      Barin22
      Silver
      Joined: 16.02.2008 Posts: 196
      Originally posted by ovechkin91
      my advice: dont play these sngs. Your edge is much bigger in normal sngs. And even bigger in cash games
      One true in this advice, u have bigger edge in normal sngs. But your main goal is not to have best ROI, most important is your hourly rate. On the 3,5+0,3 level u can easily play 50-60 these sngs in one hour (continuous 16 tabling). And if u think u cant have here big enough edge, i have more than 13% ROI on sample size 15k of these(3,5+0,3 lvl). Sure at higher buyins they are much tougher but still beatable as u can see on some guys sharkscope graphs.
    • Alverine
      Alverine
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,938
      hey cyzo, your graph is not working, try using imageshack or photobucket.

      Obviously, a sample size of ~50 on pokerstars and ~100 on full tilt is nothing to draw long-term conclusions from, but other players here have played the volume to show that these are profitable games, and I am confident that I should, theoretically, have an edge in these.


      Im playing SnG's $1 turbo at partypoker, played so far 130 sessions with a $13,36 profit, not sure is good. The rake is very high, bad beats happens too often but still they have the best fishes :D