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[NL2-NL10] NL10 FR (SSS) 6,7s FD, Gutshot, and 2 pair draws

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)
      UTG+2:
      $6.70
      CO:
      $1.99
      BU:
      $1.85
      MP2:
      $1.85
      Hero:
      $1.94
      MP3:
      $3.65
      UTG+1:
      $3.94
      SB:
      $2
      BB:
      $14.15

      0.05/0.10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6:heart: , 7:heart:
      UTG+1 calls $0.10, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, 5 folds, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0.35) 5:diamond: , 3:heart: , 3:diamond: (3 players)
      BB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.40, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.20.

      Turn: ($1.15) J:heart: (2 players)
      UTG+1 bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.44 (All-In), UTG+1 folds.

      Final Pot: $2.99

      I know the original call is loose and certain to incite invective as a SSS play. Also, the turn call looks a bit suspect now I think about it :( Given that, any thoughts about subsequent play. As a limper, I'm putting villain on s/thing like A,6o or K,Qo (don't know whether that's reasonable, though). It feels like I have a lot of outs after the turn:
      any heart (9) another 6 or 7 for two-pair (6) and any 4 for the gutshot (4) = 19, less (1) for the 4h, so 17 or 18 outs if my maths is reliable. And I guess my 2-pairs draws are no good either, since one of them is on the board. Oops.
  • 5 replies
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Hi Tim,

      Pre-flop: Yes, your call is not standard and not advisable in SSS as it is definitely -EV. Better to save your BBs for an aggressive play at a proper time.

      Flop: Here you do not have outs to call a $0,20 bet, and even less to raise him! Unless you are absolutely sure he will fold.

      Turn: Don't ever count a pair if it is on the board. You don't have any outs for two pair there. You can count FD+Gutshot at most.
      As played, I would only call his bet on turn and bet river if I hit something, you have max 12 outs here and your FD cards are pretty low. The pot odds are less than 3:1 if you push.
    • IngolPoker
      IngolPoker
      Black
      Joined: 05.09.2006 Posts: 10,484
      wowowowowo, what exactly were you doing there??

      fold preflop, this is SO -EV

      fold flop, you dont get the odds to call and raising with 6 high is totally not recommended..

      on the turn you can call for your flushdraw and gutshot, but why do you RAISE??

      pls read some basic articles and play accordingly! :)
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Quite right. All criticisms are in order. Except that... I have read all the basic articles (I promise :) , and surely there is a difference between consciously deviating from a good rule of thumb and not knowing about a rule of thumb in the first place?

      That said, I accept this was a poor play and that I just got lucky.

      One more question though. You asked why I raised after the turn instead of just calling. The reason was that I considered the minraise by UTG+1 might have been an attempt to represent he was holding a 3 (based partly on previous play). By raising I thougt that I was perhaps creating some fold equity?

      Could you explain (or point me in the right direction) when - if ever - it is correct to play draws aggressively?

      Thanks,
    • IngolPoker
      IngolPoker
      Black
      Joined: 05.09.2006 Posts: 10,484
      You are right, its always about FEQ :)

      I just think that in this specific hand you dont have a lot.....he bet/calls the flop and bets the turn again...the turncard didnt change much and your stack is small....bet/fold doesnt make sense for him imo :P

      Especially when you can make a huge +EV call (like here for these great odds with tons of outs), a raise is quite unattractive, because you already have a great option (call)
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 8,028
      Thanks Ingol - that makes sense.

      p.s. Cheers again for the great coaching on Friday :P