TT+ Leak

    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      High pairs. They should be good winning hands. However with TT - KK I seem to have a hideous past. Almost every major loss in my records is from these hands coming up against higher pairs or coinflips.

      My current play with QQ/KK is to attempt to get all in preflop then if we do see the flop I conti-bet fold on a board with higher cards or bet/bet/all in with overpairs/sets.

      My play with TT/JJ is to raise if no raises then to call a re-raise for set value only. If I am re-raised I give up to any overcards with no set.

      With no re-raise I play them similarly to QQ/KK flops.

      I seem to lose some major hands when I am re-raised. Can anyone give advice on when to fold, when to 4 bet, when to flat call?

      Playing NL10. In general my graph goes up in a nice wobbly line until I get one of these major hands and lose a stack.

      Note: This of course doesn't apply to aces. I am ok with them. They lose sometimes but I just bet/bet/bet. No point slowplaying on NL10 really.
  • 7 replies
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,766
      My sympathies. T,T or J,J make me nervous too. Latest advice seems to be to go all-in with J,J+ to a re-raise behind but to fold T,T. (And that's regardless of the ratio of stack to original raise).

      Please, if I've got that wrong, somebody shout!

      T6
    • barrelhead
      barrelhead
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 95
      Should be TT+ and AK.

      BH
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      Surely a re-raise is signalling that they have TT+, AQ+ (at loosest?) So if we push with TT, JJ surely we are getting into coinflips or worse? Is pushing with TT and JJ a way to stop us getting pushed off hands regularly? I'm not sure many players at NL10 are watching us well enough to note down our 4 bet ranges.
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      start posting such hands, it's always easier to evaluate an exact situation then just an abstract question.


      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      Have done, thanks just wondered if I was doing something wrong in general.
    • soucy
      soucy
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.11.2006 Posts: 2,092
      I don't like going all in preflop with TT or JJ .. especially without reads. Against a loose player like 33/25 with 10% 3bet i'm happy to get it preflop in with JJ/TT ... but against a tight player or against an unknown player i won't go all in against a re-reaise.

      As said a re-reaise is mostly a range of TT+, AQ+ .. maybe AJs. Against such a range our JJ is a slightly underdog and TT has only 40% equity. Against a re-raise i'm folding TT/JJ most of the time because i think there are many other situations where i can put in my money with much more equity.

      Maybe this line is slightly missing value but it's definetly reducing the variance :)
    • Meiffert
      Meiffert
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.10.2008 Posts: 151
      Originally posted by soucy
      As said a re-reaise is mostly a range of TT+, AQ+ .. maybe AJs. Against such a range our JJ is a slightly underdog and TT has only 40% equity.
      Well, many people reraise or stealreraise with complete trash hands, so you are often against a looser range.
      Without a read I'm going broke because I think it's more likely to run into looser range than into a tighter one.

      Now if you really think you are against the range you stated, it's still good though.
      You have 'only' 40 % equity and you would like to go all-in preflop with 50 or more in a standard situation, but in this case you get better pod odds.
      Say you raised to 4 bb and have 15 behind (very standard for a sss in my opinion). Then you need to pay 15 and you will win 39.5 (sb + bb + 19x2) and you need 38 % equity for this move to be profitable. If you raised more (say 5 bb because there was a limper in front of you) or you have smaller stack left, the push becomes even more +EV.

      With a strong read that you are against a player who 3-bets very tight (for exampleif he is a strict sss player himself), you can fold TT if you want to lower your variance.

      Originally posted by soucy
      Against a re-raise i'm folding TT/JJ most of the time because i think there are many other situations where i can put in my money with much more equity.
      Well, this sort of thinking makes no sense to me in a cash game. Just play all the situations where it is +EV.
      In a tournament you can fold even though push would be +EV, because you don't want to risk your tournament life and believe that your edge allows you to outplay the villain later anyway, but in cash games this is just wasting money in a long run.
      With a conservative BRM you have no reason to fear variance. :-)



      Oh - one more thing. All I was talking about goes for a short stack strategy as Tim64 and barrelhead seem to be talking about it, I might be wrong though. Smileyphil's post seems to be about bss.