[NL2-NL10] NL10 FR (SSS) - 7,8s - freeplay - flush and straight draws

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)
      CO:
      $11.79
      UTG+2:
      $1.96
      MP3:
      $10
      BU:
      $2
      MP2:
      $1.85
      MP1:
      $10.14
      Hero:
      $1.55
      SB:
      $1.50

      0.05/0.10 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 7:heart: , 8:heart:
      UTG+2 calls $0.10, 6 folds, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($0.25) 7:spade: , 9:diamond: , J:heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10.

      Turn: ($0.45) K:heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10.

      River: ($0.65) T:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.25 (All-In), UTG+2 folds.

      Final Pot: $1.90

      Pretty sure I got this one wrong too... :(
  • 8 replies
    • Gafny
      Gafny
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2008 Posts: 337
      Fold on flop, you only have bottom pair =)
      also you only have a gutshot straightdraw and a backdoorflush draw which is far from great. But that doesnt really matter since youre playing SSS and dont have the implied odds to draw for such hand.



      In freeplay situations like this you should only play made hands (atleast top pair great kicker) for starters and in that case play them aggressively by raising the pot.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Thanks Gredal,

      I probably overestimated my odds on the Turn. I agree with you that I don't have the odds to call there.

      However, having hit a heart on the Turn, it must be pretty much mandatory for me to - at least - call villain's bet? My pot odds are now 5.5:1, I think, and now that I have a flush draw, gutshot, as well as the two 7s (for trips), I must have getting on for 15 outs, So about 2:1 odds. Or, say 3:1 to allow for discounting.

      I didn't quite understand your point about implied odds. Do you mean that implied odds are never available in SSS? Or just that they're not available here. (And if not, why not?)

      There is an article in the bronze section called "Shortstack-Strategy: Implied Pot Odds" that seems to explain when you can give yourself additional pot odds, and I'm not sure why I can't (at least in principle) make an assessment about whether I have any implied odds in a given situation. Here, villain limped in which perhaps suggests loosness. Then he bet, both on the flop and turn, which suggests he has some kind of hand - which it would presumably be harder for him to fold to a future bet by Hero.

      As always, though, I'm just feeling my way here; so I'm quite willing to be put in my place if I'm wrong/out of line ;)
    • Gafny
      Gafny
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.11.2008 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Thanks Gredal,

      I probably overestimated my odds on the Turn. I agree with you that I don't have the odds to call there.

      However, having hit a heart on the Turn, it must be pretty much mandatory for me to - at least - call villain's bet? My pot odds are now 5.5:1, I think, and now that I have a flush draw, gutshot, as well as the two 7s (for trips), I must have getting on for 15 outs, So about 2:1 odds. Or, say 3:1 to allow for discounting.

      I didn't quite understand your point about implied odds. Do you mean that implied odds are never available in SSS? Or just that they're not available here. (And if not, why not?)

      There is an article in the bronze section called "Shortstack-Strategy: Implied Pot Odds" that seems to explain when you can give yourself additional pot odds, and I'm not sure why I can't (at least in principle) make an assessment about whether I have any implied odds in a given situation. Here, villain limped in which perhaps suggests loosness. Then he bet, both on the flop and turn, which suggests he has some kind of hand - which it would presumably be harder for him to fold to a future bet by Hero.

      As always, though, I'm just feeling my way here; so I'm quite willing to be put in my place if I'm wrong/out of line ;)

      Yes there's implied odds when playing SSS ofc, but they are never really good and you should only rely on them if youre on a somewhat strongdraw in the case of freeplay. If you raised preflop however its okay to play a flushdraw or a straightdraw aggressively postflop. I found his other article you can read to give you an idea of the different draws:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/1027/
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Ok, thanks mate. I'll take a look at the article.

      Cheers,

      Tim
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Hi Tim,

      You should indeed fold flop. But as played I think it's pretty alright to call turn, you get good enough odds. You have FD + Gutshot + 2pair + trips here. Though you have to discount many of these outs. A two pair wouldn't help you much here, for example, because an 8 could complete villain's straight.

      But 5.5 on turn is good enough. Fold flop though!
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Ok, dandycal. Thanks - that seems like good advice.

      p.s. see you r now gold. congrats!
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Hello Tim64,

      Your check/call on the Flop is a bit marginal and I recommend you to just fold it because you have to fold the Turn most of the times (check/fold)

      As played, suerly call the Turn bet but going all-in on the River is overbetting so I would bet like $0.5 despite it is like 50%> of your stack.

      Best regards,
      Gerv
    • dandycal
      dandycal
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2008 Posts: 1,711
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Ok, dandycal. Thanks - that seems like good advice.

      p.s. see you r now gold. congrats!
      Thanks!