[NL5] QQ OOP in 3bet pot vs strong action

    • FearedBeing
      FearedBeing
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 28
      PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 237.8 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
      SB: 105.2 BB
      BB: 108.6 BB
      Hero (UTG): 153.6 BB
      MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
      CO: 219.2 BB

      SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q:diamond: Q:club:

      Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN raises to 10.4 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 7.4 BB

      Would you call or 4bet in this spot? In this hand, I called with the plan on continuing on most boards thatr arent't A or K high. However, the more I think about 4betting, the more I like it. It prevents us having to face tough spots OOP on A or K high boards and other tough decisions (like the one in this hand). Also, facing a 5bet, in NL5 it seems safe to put villain on KK+, AK and find a easy fold.

      Flop: (22.2 BB, 2 players) 6:club: J:club: 7:spade:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 11 BB, Hero calls 11 BB

      Continuing as planned on this board.

      Turn: (44.2 BB, 2 players) 2:spade:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 25 BB, fold

      The turn bricks but villain pretty much insta-bet anyways. Villain would for sure play this line with any sets or any overpairs and 76s, which all of them beat us. He might also play like this with some J (like AJ) and strong draws, such as nut flush draws like AKc or combo draws like 89c.

      It seems to me villains has multiple value combos and very few semi-bluffs here. Also being NL5, I think villain is unlikely to be bluffing a lot with weaker draws, especially in a 3bet pot.

      Is my read reasonnable, or is QQ too strong here to fold on the turn?
  • 6 replies
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 6,890
      About preflop: some 4bet some call. I personally would just call here.

      Villain probably has quite tight range when he 3bets UTG. Mostly suited aces and AQo+, KQs? And ofc QQ+.

      That flop is a call.

      At NL5 people do all kind of funny stuff. I think it is possible that he barrels with nut flush draws especially if he has 2 overs. Theoretically I believe this would be a call and if river bricks you call this down. You are at the top of your calling range here. But I'm not sure if we should adjust that line here. Does villain barrel with a value heavy range is is he a spew monkey?

      You said villain would do this with sets and 76s. I think he should not 3bet us with 66 or 77 pre and JJ is probably just a call too. And he absolutely should not 3bet with 67s.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,415
      Originally posted by FearedBeing
      Would you call or 4bet in this spot? In this hand, I called with the plan on continuing on most boards thatr arent't A or K high. However, the more I think about 4betting, the more I like it. It prevents us having to face tough spots OOP on A or K high boards and other tough decisions (like the one in this hand). Also, facing a 5bet, in NL5 it seems safe to put villain on KK+, AK and find a easy fold.
      Hi FearedBeing,
      I love your nick!

      See the bold in the quote.

      Also, if this was me playing (and I am not a hold'em master) then I would most definitely bet the flop.
      Checking here might encourage an aggressive player to bet with :Ax: :Jx: -- so once checked, the check/raise is also a fine option.

      I gave villain a super strong range and on the flop you're still ahead:

      Board: 7:spade: J:club: 6:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    53.68%  52.91%   0.77% { QQ }
      BU     46.32%  45.55%   0.77% { JJ+, 77-66, ATs+, AJo+ }


      I didn't include straight or flush draws, -- but if that is what he is doing, you are actually a wee bit stronger:

      Board: 7:spade: J:club: 6:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    56.84%  56.30%   0.54% { QQ }
      BU     43.16%  42.61%   0.54% { JJ+, 77-66, ATs+, 9c8c, 5c4c, AJo+, 98o, 54o }


      As played, I think it is too late to show any aggression OTT.

      Remember the "aggressive" part of "Tight-Aggressive"

      I would love to hear what other's have to say about this hand.
      I tend to overplay my overpairs, so maybe I'm off the mark here.

      Cheers,
      VS
    • KatalonacX
      KatalonacX
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2013 Posts: 50
      Preflop is standard call, no 4-bet, maybe on some higher limits. Flop is call, no need to raise. OTT this is easy call imo, if I'm on btn I'll bet 3/4pot cause we are deep (with AA,KK).
      Everything about ranges are written.
    • TurokRider
      TurokRider
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.10.2011 Posts: 94
      I would also call preflop and not 4bet.
      Flop is call for me
      OTT I would call.
      Depending on what card drops, betsizing and maybe timingreads I might call river too
    • BingoWings
      BingoWings
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2017 Posts: 112
      I'm going to assume lot's of things here :f_biggrin: so assuming villain doesn't 3bet hands like AQs QQ JJ AK in this spot and maybe has a range of like KK+ A2s-A5s and assuming he barrels the flush draws on turn i think this would have to be a clear call down on non spade and club rivers with 36% equity vs that range , that's assuming he bluffs the river with his missed draws.

      Let's say he only bluffs river with 50% of his missed draws though we now only have 20% equity and i think most villains at these stakes actually rarely fire the third barrel so calling flop and turn and folding river might actually be a better play. Having said that i dont think calling down on decent run outs would be a big mistake by any means.
    • toteatoo
      toteatoo
      Silver
      Joined: 15.11.2011 Posts: 249
      Preflop call is IMO better, you are deep.
      Flop is definitely call, he can have not only made hands but also some overcards with draw.