[NL2-NL10] nl5 pocket eights

    • Hurrican4
      Joined: 16.08.2008 Posts: 30
      0,02/0,04 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8:spade: , 8:diamond:
      2 folds, UTG2 calls $0,04, MP1 folds, Hero calls $0,04, MP3 calls $0,04, CO folds, BU calls $0,04, SB calls $0,02, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0,24) 6:spade: , 5:club: , 4:diamond: (6 players)
      SB checks, BB checks, UTG2 checks, Hero bets $0,23, MP3 calls $0,23, BU calls $0,23, 2 folds, UTG2 calls $0,23.

      Turn: ($1,16) 3:diamond: (4 players)
      UTG2 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $0,83, BU calls $0,83, UTG2 folds, Hero calls $0,83.

      River: ($3,65) 8:heart: (3 players)
      Hero checks, MP3 bets $0,44, BU calls $0,44, Hero calls $0,44.

      Final Pot: $4,97

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows three of a kind, eights (8s 8d)
      MP3 shows a straight, eight high (7h 7d)
      BU shows three of a kind, threes (3h 3s)

      MP3 wins with a straight, eight high (7h 7d)
  • 5 replies
    • TheBrood
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      This looks just like a hand I played today.

      I wouldnt bet flop since you are not going to make 5 ppl fold here. And you will prob not like the turn card after they call you on the flop.

      On turn just give it up since at least one of them has a straight.

      On river you cant fold to small bet with set I guess.
    • Jaissica
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 1,385
      I disagree with Brood again :(

      You correctly bet at the flop with your overs to make people that call call from behind. It was a good bet (pot size) as anyone who calls is probably behind (except sets, 23 or 78), and in that case you still have a gutshot draw to catch. Sets or 78 might re-raise and let you get out of dodge. You cant give anyone credit for a bigger overpair in an unraised preflop.

      Now as Brood says you wont make everyone fold with that bet, but you are in front. If you do it a hundred times you might win 30 pots, but thats more than your fair share of it in a 6 handed game. The key is to do it then get out on the turn if its very likely to have helped someone. As soon as 4 players stayed in though, you were in strife. You wanted 1-2 tops. When the turn was a 3, you were completely boned and should have run screaming from the pot.

      The again, if you dont like betting on very slim edges, he is right. Check or fold, possibly call a very small bet. if you called a small bet you are looking for a 7 or an 8 (6 outs) on the turn.

      Its the same situation, kinda, as being BB with AA in a 10 handed ring and *everyone* else has gone all in in front of you. Call or fold? You are a dog to take that one pot (someone else is very likely to catch a F, str, 2P or trips), but over 100 such pots you will be a rich man.

      As you saw you had two people with baby pairs effectively drawing at 6 outs (2222, 33) or runners (eg 77 had 2 outs to set, then 10 for a board pair to full / quads). A single 7 gives you the str too and pays you off from one guy's set and another guy's str. You had a ~70% chance of beating both players (33 and 77) with 88 into a 4, 5, 6 flop. Good flop bet! If we give the folding caller credit for two over cards that gives the opposition 12 outs (credit AK, outs become AAA KKK 2222 33) and you are still a ~45% chance to win a 4 way pot. Thats doubling your money right there.

      However! Your call on the turn (3) was close to a donation. Ima go ahead and be mean - it was a donkey call. With 4 players calling a pot sized bet someone - anyone - has to have a 2 or a 7, again remembering it was an unraised preflop. A-7, Pic-7, 7-board and 2-board would all have called your flop bet. You are almost certainly behind and drawing to 4 outs that you know of (7s - 2 in fact as you saw at the end) and even then could possibly still! come second (to 89). You needed 10-1 pot+implied odds to make that call EV, so you would have needed to be sure of taking at least $8.30 if you hit the 7... youd have needed 2 all in callers AFTER you hit your str! (assuming standard big stacks on a 2c4c). Only donkeys often cold call a board they cant beat, and thats what youd have had - the board and 2 players all with 3-7.

      Once you got there, the 8 on the river was the last card you wanted to see as it was enough to get you to crying call and burn another 44c. The only help you could have got was the 7.
    • TheBrood
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 4,382
      After reading Jaissica's post I must add to my post that if you hit your set someone else has good chances to make a straight, so I would c/f this hand from the flop. Only a 7 helps you.

      We must remember that on NL4 they call down with bottom pair, gutshots, FD, backdoors, OC, etc. So your odds on getting to the river and winning are very low imo. Ive seen ppl slowplay TT+ too so all the more reason to get out if you dont hit your set.
    • veriz
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Preflop: Raise.
      Flop: Now you will have less people in pot and can try Bet/Fold. That would be my moves :P
    • srohack
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 1,908
      nice post jaissica
      beting the flop is ok but you should give up to any kind of resistence
      the turn is a check/fold . it is almost imposible for you to still be good in such a multiway pot on that board . you were practicaly drawing to a gutshot without proper odds
      as played you have to call river