20bb push

    • lebovsky
      lebovsky
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2006 Posts: 14
      Hello,
      started playing spin & gos at Pokerstars and want to improve my game.
      Having a license for the Sit and go Wizzard, I started doing some quizzes.
      Several times I encountered a 20bb push from sb into bb (blind level 15/30 hero in sb with 590chips). My previous range for the push at that early stage was only 5% of hands, but the wizzard says: push all of them! 100 %. Don't get the concept. When I'm down to just one or two big blinds and someone raises all in, I understand that even with the worst hands I have to call. I still have some equity with it and it wouldn't be worth waiting for a better hand anymore.
      What is the theory of pushing so much on an early stage? Because it also contradicts my usual game plan of creating a supertight image, which I'm going to take advantage of later at the 20/40 or 30/60 blind level.
      Thanks
  • 6 replies
    • coldchurch
      coldchurch
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2013 Posts: 281
      Pushing 20bb with every hand, is suicide. Maybe it has something to do with ICM and bubble play, but I don't understand this either. :f_o:
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 33,480
      Pushing 100% is indeed ridicules or we are playing against a nit or short stack, but against a 500 stack i would prefer min-raise fold most of the time against a tight player.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • CptJokerFish
      CptJokerFish
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2017 Posts: 115
      If the software suggests to push with a 100% range then your opponent will have a huge leak in his game.

      Example:
      Effective stack size: 20bb
      SB vs. BB

      The BB calls a SB all-in only with AA-TT,AKs-ATs,KQs,AKo-AJo,KQo
      Whatis the optimal SB pushing range?
      Answer: 100% range.

      Because the BB is folding 92.60% of the time so the SB can push with any2 cards. This is of course not the max. EV strategy because some hands have a better expecation value when you just open for example instead of going directly all-in.
      But in a push or fold game the best strategy is to go all-in with any2 cards.
    • vlzvl
      vlzvl
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.03.2014 Posts: 143
      Pushing with 20bb may look too much and it is but there are cases which a program such as SNG Wizard or ICMizer might tell you to push with that stack.
      One on these cases is a wrong setup of your opponents i.e. they play very tight according to program.
      The other case may be the rising antes which adjust your stack to them, causing your stack to shrink by an increased adjusted big blind.
      A third case is the effective stack; a 20bb means 8bb if you're pushing against an 8bb stack.
      I can't think of anything else. ICM plays a role on the number of big blinds but 20bb is too much in normal conditions.
    • CocaPLOla
      CocaPLOla
      Basic
      Joined: 10.10.2017 Posts: 3
      20bb sb vs BB push range only 22-55
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 33,480
      Originally posted by CocaPLOla
      20bb sb vs BB push range only 22-55
      Without antes in play I wouldn’t have a shove range at all or we are playing out of position against 2 fishy players with a medium strength hand.