[NL10] In a tough spot with QQ

    • AnXfile378
      AnXfile378
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2017 Posts: 85
      So in a tough spot here with QQ out of position to the BB aggression. Check out the hand and let me know if you agree with me taking this to the river, and if you think my actions on the River were the right play.

      Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      MP: 101.8 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 12.31, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 66)
      CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 11.97, PFR: 6.84, 3Bet Preflop: 1.85, Hands: 121)
      BTN: 205.1 BB (VPIP: 24.69, PFR: 17.28, 3Bet Preflop: 12.00, Hands: 83)
      SB: 88 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
      BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 54.55, PFR: 54.55, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
      Hero (UTG): 100 BB

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:diamond: Q:spade:

      Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

      Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 8:heart: A:spade: T:heart:
      BB bets 4.6 BB, Hero calls 4.6 BB

      Turn: (15.7 BB, 2 players) A:club:
      BB bets 11.2 BB, Hero calls 11.2 BB

      River: (38.1 BB, 2 players) 2:spade:


      BB bets 21 BB, fold

      BB wins 36.2 BB
  • 11 replies
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 2,602
      What is tough here ? You have many way better hands to call here, fold flop (unless he is really donking 100%).
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 33,460
      The BB seems crazy so far in the 11 previous hands and he can easy donk with a draw on flop and I don’t think it’s too bad to call the flop and turn when the 2nd ace arrived. River is a complete blank and without reads you could bluff catch with QQ I think, but it’s close for sure.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • MisterSnS
      MisterSnS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2011 Posts: 1,748
      Originally posted by SDK1987
      The BB seems crazy so far in the 11 previous hands and he can easy donk with a draw on flop and I don’t think it’s too bad to call the flop and turn when the 2nd ace arrived. River is a complete blank and without reads you could bluff catch with QQ I think, but it’s close for sure.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
      Two flaws in your reasoning:

      1) You take 11 hands of the opponent and try to reason of a sample that is effectively tiny and therefore not valid to draw any conclusions from
      2) On lower limits people tend to not triple-barrel bluff. Therefore the idea of bluffcatching imo is very bad on 10NL, especially on a runout like this.

      --> Easy fold. I may consider folding the turn already, but there are too many draws out there I guess, and he may even bet Tx because he doesn't know better.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,711
      I'd call once. I definitely need an A to call all the way. Already AJ and smaller A are a bit shaky (but perhaps wimpy to fold).
    • TEXASDUKE1
      TEXASDUKE1
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2017 Posts: 6
      correct me if im wrong as I dont use tracker or any other helper.
      but if his last 11 hands he is (VPIP: 54.55, PFR: 54.55 and he hasnt shown any moves in calling raises should give you a red flag. to me he is in trap mode and looking to set it if he is not the type to get all happy and shove his big pocket pairs. Id say hes holding AA or AK and your had.

      One thing I see out there and dont understand. after the flop it was call, call, call . Just curious here when were you going to find out how much he liked his hand ? ( no re raise to find out ? ) on the turn you put in 11.2 bb you could use some of that on the flop and still get away from the hand cheaper plus if you put any more in on river.
      38.1 bb in pot on river makes it hard to get away from if he bets right he gets paid off.
      Just was I see good luck at the tables
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,711
      Originally posted by TEXASDUKE1
      ...
      Just curious here when were you going to find out how much he liked his hand ? ( no re raise to find out ? ) on the turn you put in 11.2 bb you could use some of that on the flop and still get away from the hand cheaper plus if you put any more in on river.
      ...
      Raising to "see where you are at" (only!) with trash is usually a very, very bad idea.
    • TEXASDUKE1
      TEXASDUKE1
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2017 Posts: 6
      6-max QQ is a bad Hand ?
      If you think QQ is a bad hand after the fop then why are you putting more chips in.
      If you stay in and keep paying him off just to keep him honest I would think that was a flaw in your game.
      I dont see any play to get any more information to help make a solid thought about the players hand.
      Plus I have no idea what the Hero thought the player had for a hand so to make any more assumptions would be hard.
      thank you for your comment
    • Titan8
      Titan8
      Gold
      Joined: 18.02.2014 Posts: 798
      QQ is strong preflop and strong on many flops, when we "hit" overpair (or better). But after overcard like A on this case, we are not good enough. We have mostly only bluffcatcher (maybe few Tx hands if he overplays), we didnt beat anything from his value range.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,711
      Originally posted by TEXASDUKE1
      6-max QQ is a bad Hand ?
      If you think QQ is a bad hand after the fop then why are you putting more chips in.
      If you stay in and keep paying him off just to keep him honest I would think that was a flaw in your game.
      I dont see any play to get any more information to help make a solid thought about the players hand.
      Plus I have no idea what the Hero thought the player had for a hand so to make any more assumptions would be hard.
      thank you for your comment
      Don't raise with bluff catchers. Raise with good hands - or hands with potential to become good hands as a bluff. With bluff catchers you call or fold. If you raise, only worse hands will fold. Now, what good does that do to you?
    • MisterSnS
      MisterSnS
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2011 Posts: 1,748
      The poster of this thread should read himself into relative handstrenghts, and that hands can lose their value postflop, and generally get an idea what people can hold when they choose strong lines like this
    • TEXASDUKE1
      TEXASDUKE1
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2017 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by YohanN7
      Originally posted by TEXASDUKE1
      6-max QQ is a bad Hand ?
      If you think QQ is a bad hand after the fop then why are you putting more chips in.
      If you stay in and keep paying him off just to keep him honest I would think that was a flaw in your game.
      I dont see any play to get any more information to help make a solid thought about the players hand.
      Plus I have no idea what the Hero thought the player had for a hand so to make any more assumptions would be hard.
      thank you for your comment
      Don't raise with bluff catchers. Raise with good hands - or hands with potential to become good hands as a bluff. With bluff catchers you call or fold. If you raise, only worse hands will fold. Now, what good does that do to you?
      I dont see his play as a bluff play to be caught. To me it is a trap play because he shows always raising preflop. unless your able to put him on a hand fast (preflop)
      hes needs to protect and find out where he is at. going to the river to see if you win is giving away chips and letting him win if he makes his hand. too risky with just 1 pair.