[NL10] AK Facing Pre-flop 4-bet Jam

    • neliorelva
      neliorelva
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2017 Posts: 20
      Hey guys,
      i wanna see your thoughts in this hand. I just thought that this was a hyper-aggressive move by an unknown player and since i wasn't commited to the pot i decided to Fold. Just want to make sure that i am not overfolding.
      Thank you,
      PokerStars - €0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 30.5 BB (VPIP: 22.87, PFR: 2.66, 3Bet Preflop: 1.18, Hands: 192)
      Hero (SB): 138.6 BB
      BB: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 28.32, PFR: 20.51, 3Bet Preflop: 6.70, Hands: 1,578)
      UTG: 128.4 BB (VPIP: 15.94, PFR: 10.14, 3Bet Preflop: 1.30, Hands: 215)
      MP: 211.9 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 20.51, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
      CO: 48 BB (VPIP: 21.21, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 5.87, Hands: 2,052)

      Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:diamond: A:spade:

      UTG raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 10 BB, fold, UTG raises to 128.4 BB and is all-in, fold

      UTG wins 21 BB
  • 13 replies
    • pdfbq
      pdfbq
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      Joined: 23.05.2008 Posts: 176
      I just read some about that here on PS. Shoving AK is profitable when you have fold equity, so when you shove.
      This because even 22 beats you so you need the FE part.

      When your opponent shoves you don't have it anymore (fold equity).

      I think its a plausible story.

      Edit: So yes fold. That was not 100% clear before the edit.
    • Mauslord
      Mauslord
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2011 Posts: 2,280
      easy fold vs monster nit for me.

      weird spot. his puhs look so damh weak, but i like the fold :f_thumbsup:
    • la55i
      la55i
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      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,620
      UTG opening range is tight and your villain seems quite nitty. You don't have to 3bet AK vs UTG open. I'm not saying it is bad, I will do this from time to time also, but it is not wrong to just call.
      Since you decide to 3bet, your sizing is a bit on the bigger side because you are IP and villain opened smaller than 3x.

      Vs UTG you most often face KK+ when he ships it. You are about 130bb deep so folding AKo is probably a good move.
    • neliorelva
      neliorelva
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2017 Posts: 20
      Originally posted by la55i
      UTG opening range is tight and your villain seems quite nitty. You don't have to 3bet AK vs UTG open. I'm not saying it is bad, I will do this from time to time also, but it is not wrong to just call.
      Since you decide to 3bet, your sizing is a bit on the bigger side because you are IP and villain opened smaller than 3x.

      Vs UTG you most often face KK+ when he ships it. You are about 130bb deep so folding AKo is probably a good move.
      Thanks for the input. What do you consider a standard size ?
      I usually go for the 3x.
    • la55i
      la55i
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      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,620
      For some reason I have made a lot of misreads today :f_eek:

      3x is a standard sizing and then some like to add 1bb when OOP and probably make it 1bb smaller when IP.
      Here I thought you were IP so it looked like 4x raise when in position.. Well this still is a 4x raise but you really are OOP here so I guess it is decent.
      Personally I would 3bet to probably 8bb or 9bb max here.
    • neliorelva
      neliorelva
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2017 Posts: 20
      Originally posted by la55i
      For some reason I have made a lot of misreads today :f_eek:

      3x is a standard sizing and then some like to add 1bb when OOP and probably make it 1bb smaller when IP.
      Here I thought you were IP so it looked like 4x raise when in position.. Well this still is a 4x raise but you really are OOP here so I guess it is decent.
      Personally I would 3bet to probably 8bb or 9bb max here.
      I usually use that sizing. I just like to go for the bigger size because recreationals tend to call pretty loose.
    • MyFloXyBabY
      MyFloXyBabY
      Silver
      Joined: 15.02.2010 Posts: 2,662
      Originally posted by la55i
      You don't have to 3bet AK vs UTG open.
      From SB yes you do ;)

      Originally posted by la55i
      I'm not saying it is bad, I will do this from time to time also, but it is not wrong to just call.
      From SB yes it would be :P
    • la55i
      la55i
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      Hmm okay, but why?
      I checked some ranges from coaches and Weazel would mostly call here and Janda plays mixed with AKo.
      I also filtered my own database and 3betting seems to work nicely BUT the sample size I used was waaaay too small to make any conclusions.

      Why 3betting is better? I believe when UTG calls a 3bet he mostly continues with pocket pairs and AK, and if he 4bets we mostly face KK+ only.
      This of course depends on how we and our villain construct our ranges but I see no big reasons why calling AK here would be bad?
    • NS3027
      NS3027
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      Joined: 07.02.2017 Posts: 9
      Hi just curious here. What if villain 4 bets to something like 30BB to 35BB??

      Should we at least call to see the flop assuming
      a. villain is loose aggressive
      b. villain is nit
      c. villain is regular.

      Am asking in this thread because I faced a similar situation (just the the 4bet was smaller).

      thanks in advance!
    • la55i
      la55i
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      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,620
      Against a nit it is close and I think we still should not 3bet against nit UTG. But yea normally I think if you face a regular sized 3bet (which btw would be 2.2x - 2.5x) then you could just call there. Stacking off vs loose aggressive guys is not terrible but since we are slightly deeper than 100bb stacking off vs tight range with AKo is usually a bit -EV.
    • Varune
      Varune
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      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 5,396
      Originally posted by NS3027
      Hi just curious here. What if villain 4 bets to something like 30BB to 35BB??

      Should we at least call to see the flop assuming
      a. villain is loose aggressive
      b. villain is nit
      c. villain is regular.

      Am asking in this thread because I faced a similar situation (just the the 4bet was smaller).

      thanks in advance!
      A) we ship.
      B) Vs nit i wouldn't advocate 3betting vs UTG
      C) Fold or Ship, calling is bad imo.
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,781
      I'd always 3bet these days here but there's nothing wrong with a flat here vs 15/10, keeping his weaker aces in and lowering your variance
      Against 4bets I'd call or fold vs UTG depending on size and opponent (fold vs 30bb vs tight ones), but that should happen rarely as you block AA KK and Ax that most people use almost exclusively for 4b bluffs in these spots, and QQ is a flat for most these days UTGvSB
    • LemOn36
      LemOn36
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      Joined: 07.02.2009 Posts: 1,781
      Oh snapfold as played of course deeper
      you don't even have odds to calls vs TT+,AQs+,AKo