88 on the Final Table

    • Mantelo
      Mantelo
      Gold
      Joined: 12.05.2009 Posts: 594
      It is a 135€ freezout tournament. Don't have too many reads on opponents, most of them I face for the first time. Only the 3rd hand at the table, so no statistics provided.

      Hero (SB): 147,348 (24.6 bb)
      BB: 67,808.40 (11.3 bb)
      MP1: 274,645.28 (45.8 bb)
      MP2: 160,588.70 (26.8 bb)
      MP3: 253,951.14 (42.3 bb)
      CO: 289,592.28 (48.3 bb)
      BTN: 101,066.20 (16.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with :8c: :8d:
      3 folds, CO raises to 12,000, BTN folds, Hero raises to 146,748 and is all-in, BB folds, CO calls 134,748

      Flop: (303,696) :Ts: :Ah: :6h: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: (303,696) :Jd: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: (303,696) :4c: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results:
      303,696 pot
      Final Board: :Ts: :Ah: :6h: :Jd: :4c:
      Hero showed :8c: :8d: and lost (-147,348 net)
      CO showed :Qd: :Qc: and won 303,696 (156,348 net)


      Thinking about my possible moves, I can go through all possibilities:
      1) Fold --> Too tight. Could possibly settle down for 5th place, bearing in mind there is one short stack in a game. But I prefer to have a chance for a win.
      2) Call --> could find in some tricky spots, especially if BB decides to join as well. If BB jams and initial raiser jams over the top, I am not sure I could call both All-ins.
      3) 3bet small and fold to 4bet --> I have other hands for such play. 88 have too much Value.
      4) 3bet small and call AI --> Do I really want him to 4bet hands like KJ KQ AT AJ?
      5) Close my eyes and jam --> Went for this option, but risking 25BB seems a bit risky.

      So guys, help me to figure this out!
  • 8 replies
    • insomnia666
      insomnia666
      Gold
      Joined: 31.07.2010 Posts: 2,186
      The fold is not "too tight". This is SB vs CO with short stack on BB. The most important factors are the payout structure and the ante. I mean without any info. And you don't mention that. The only options are shove and fold. NAI 3bet and call is for balance. Obv no need for that at all.
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 33,440
      Without knowing the pay-out structure and ante information I would most likely stack off as well with our 24bb stack with 88 against a CO open.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • insomnia666
      insomnia666
      Gold
      Joined: 31.07.2010 Posts: 2,186
      This is not a snap shove. Can be -EV or +EV. This is a final table. Even the little mistakes are so expensive.
      It is a 135€ freezout tournament

      Yes, you will have good equity. Better than 50% for sure. But what about the fold equity? You are not on BB. Everyone will expect wider range from you. With 24bb shove. The CO doesn't care, he is with 48bb. The BB is looking for a good spot. This is not so easy shove.
      Maybe you assume the CO is with wide range. He can't expect more than 40-45% fold. Will be very optimistic.
      @SDK1987, you will raise as well 77 so easily , correct?
      There is a big difference between 99, 88 and 77 in those spots. That's why I'm asking for the info.
    • Mantelo
      Mantelo
      Gold
      Joined: 12.05.2009 Posts: 594
      I add the payouts screen.

      I have never played with this player before, so didn't have any info about him. Just the fact that in first 2 hands at the Final Table he got dealt AA and AK. Obvious fold now as he is on the heater :sfishy:
    • insomnia666
      insomnia666
      Gold
      Joined: 31.07.2010 Posts: 2,186
      Shove.
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 33,440
      With this top heavy paid out structure shoving is fine I think.
    • insomnia666
      insomnia666
      Gold
      Joined: 31.07.2010 Posts: 2,186
      I think we can do this with AKo, AQo, 88-QQ. AKo can be big 3bet and shove on any flop with SPR=1. The problem is the stack size. That's why the range is so tight. With info we can play with wider range. The structure is important, because we have difference from 2-3% needed equity. For example, this is the difference between 99, 88 and 77. The ante is also a factor, but not so important.
    • Mantelo
      Mantelo
      Gold
      Joined: 12.05.2009 Posts: 594
      Thank you guys! I took some insights on this through your coments :f_thumbsup: