Any psychiatrist out there?

    • pdfbq
      pdfbq
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2008 Posts: 143
      I was soo proud of my graph, I was even above 5bb/100 but my last 10.000 hands were a disaster.



      Almost seven buy-in below EV and that is not even the hole story.
      Many suckout rivercards without being all in. In other words, somebody pressed the doom switch.

      Anyway. My problem here is that I get sad about it (No worries, not suicidal ;) ) but that's not why I play poker, to get sad.

      I probably have to quit for a while but that also seems stupid to do.

      What do you guys do when being confronted with the doom switch? Do you get sad about it too?
      I think it's very wrong but I feel I am.
      Life is too fun to get sad about loosing some stupid $14.00 in a week. That is no money for me.

      Any advise is welcome.


      Below my entire graph

  • 8 replies
    • la55i
      la55i
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 27.01.2013 Posts: 7,135
      Hey pdfbq,

      I know how you feel and I definitely feel sad / angry sometimes too.. But this is something you will get used to. Those kind of swings will happen from time to time and if you continue playing, you will see at some point that this wasn't even as bad as it could be :f_biggrin:

      There are some days when I have lost about 10 buy-ins over 2k hands. Hasn't happened very often but a couple of times a year. Every time I have recovered but it still feels stupid to lose that much in a short time.

      So don't worry about this. Take some rest and try to forget that this happened. Then take a look at your overall graph and how it is skyrocketing up. Then you just decide to play very well and continue crushing :f_thumbsup:

      If mindset problems are common for you, I would recommend reading The Mental Game of Poker 1&2, those are very good books.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,604
      Hi pdfbq,
      I am not a psychiatrist, but I do have white hair and a beard :s_biggrin:

      Although your current downswing is steep and deep, you've been through this before -- see your graph at around 35000 hands.

      How did you handle it then?

      Some reality checks:
      :diamond:   Are you doing anything different than you did before? (playing tighter or looser for example)
      :diamond:   Use the reports in PT4 to analyze your play during the downswing.
      :diamond:   Take a break of a few days, and do some study. The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler or similar books might help.

      All the best,
      VS;
    • deezerr79
      deezerr79
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2014 Posts: 16
      Emotion is a hard thing to get a handle on while playing. Wish I had some advise for you but considering your volume, clearly you could teach me a thing or two. Pokerstars holds onto that "doom switch" for me and I wish I had the patience to play through the pain.

      Lost $14 yesterday in 4 SnGs, getting it in good in most hands - perhaps that's what gets to me...the futility. If I could put side bets on the best hand losing, I reckon I could make a profit. Got in a huff and started playing some XBOX while the final SnG played out, telling myself "f*ck this, let's play a skill game". While playing Left 4 Dead 2 I busted on the SnG bubble with my AK vs button shove AJ. Played XBOX for an hour after that but was still angry, went to the kitchen and broke my hand punching a cupboard.

      After reading some on realistic ROI for SnG I found that 20% is doing very well but you obviously have to have the patience to tolerate all the abuse. I planned to set how many games a day I would play and thought I would become numb to the pain but maybe I don't work that way. Invest 3.5 and maybe get 0.7 back if I run good; it's a cruel game of marginal winnings. However, when the suck outs instantly come I detach - feeling that it's a waste of time and money. When the losses delete previous winnings, it retroactively turns those successful games into a waste of time and money. Yet I'm compelled to go back the next day.

      I suppose I'll have more time to attempt poker as now I can't use an XBOX controller :-).
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,604
      Hi again,
      Doyle Brunson once said that "You must want to win, but must not care if you lose".

      You can't put it much better than that.

      Most of the "mental game" articles revolve around teaching us how not to care if you lose.

      So here are some of the ways to not care:
      :diamond:   A bankroll big enough to absorb 10 BI -- how big that is is up to you. For MTTs, that should be 100 BI, for SNGs maybe less, for Spingos maybe more.
      :diamond:   Experience. The longer you play, the more you understand that "it all comes out in the wash".
      :diamond:   Understanding odds, variance and risk-of-ruin math. Once you truly know that if you get it in good each time, over the long run you'll win.
      :diamond:   Large quantities of alcohol. When you're drunk as a skunk, you'll lose far more, but you won't care. Well, at least not 'til you sober up. *

      Peace,
      VS;

      * I'm just kidding. Don't play drunk! :s_biggrin:
    • pdfbq
      pdfbq
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2008 Posts: 143
      Originally posted by deezerr79Played XBOX for an hour after that but was still angry, went to the kitchen and broke my hand punching a cupboard.
      Oh man.. I'm really sorry to hear that and as obvious as it sounds it's not worth it!
      Next time first write me a PM OK?! :f_grin:


      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      :diamond:   A bankroll big enough to absorb 10 BI -- how big that is is up to you. For MTTs, that should be 100 BI, for SNGs maybe less, for Spingos maybe more.
      Money is not the problem, I easily can afford a 1000BB loss (2NL) but it's something else.
      Its the fact you know you do good and still loose and again and again and again....
      Well... I guess there has been written a zillion times about this.

      I saw an interesting graph somewhere (I'll try to look it up) That with an avg winrate of 10BB/100 you still can end up negative
      after 100K hands. That you are about a 5% change of being that sucker....

      I reall have no clue who still can find fun in the game of poker when sucked out 100 buyins

      ==> Variance calculator <==

      Edit: found the graph. No clue if they let it in, it might be a 'wrong' site... :f_biggrin:
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,604
      I've seen that graph before -- but I had lost track of where it was.
      Thanks for finding it again.

      All this is theoretical. After watching people like Phil Ivey and Daniel Negreanu on TV, I've come to the conclusion that they are just really lucky.
      But...
      They know it, and they know their opponents know it, and they can exploit the fact that they are known luckboxes.

      Some days you're the hammer, some days the nail...
      VS
    • deezerr79
      deezerr79
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2014 Posts: 16
      Thanks for the kind words pdfbq :-). That I would hurt myself like that over a game certainly put my emotions into a new perspective and who knows, maybe it will improve my mindset.

      Now I just have to follow Vorpal and Doyle's advice and not care if I lose - no idea how to do that. Being the nail most of the time definitely takes the fun out of the game.

      I wonder about people being inherently lucky and have defined myself as being on the other side of that spectrum. I like to watch televised tourneys as part of study and am curious about how players take beats. They seem genuinely upset and shocked about what happened but have bought into a $10K game. Surely they must have multi-tabled online for a long time to afford to play at that level. I don't play enough for a reasonable sample to judge luck but the beats come thick and fast. So why their shock? If it's the nature of the game then surely they're numb to it to be so successful? Perhaps it hurts more live.
    • poncygainful
      poncygainful
      Basic
      Joined: 22.07.2014 Posts: 25
      This is not surprising at all. Guess you just have to deal with the changes that come along. Chill!