[NL5] Blind battle - 4-bet-pot preflop with suited connectors - river bluff shove?

    • NatKingCole
      NatKingCole
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2007 Posts: 14
      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37851529

      BTN: $3.41 (68.2 bb)
      SB: $5.93 (118.6 bb)
      Hero (BB): $5 (100 bb)
      UTG: $5 (100 bb)
      MP: $7.13 (142.6 bb)
      CO: $2.30 (46 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 9:club: 8:club:
      4 folds, SB raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.45, SB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.55

      Flop: ($2) 7:heart: 4:club: 4:spade: (2 players)
      SB bets $0.65, Hero calls $0.65

      Turn: ($3.30) T:club: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $1.18, SB calls $1.18

      River: ($5.66) 3:diamond: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero ?

      Sometimes I 3-bet SCs in a blind battle, calling 4-bet might be borderline, but the odds! :f_p:

      I think his 4-bet range is pretty wide there (min 4-bet!) and consisting mainly of high cards. So, I float flop to probably steal the pot on later streets.

      He checks turn and I thought my time has come. In addition it´s one of the best cards for me to appear. I bet a third of the pot to make it look strong and to maybe fold to a shove. Should I have shoved here?

      After villain called turn and river blanked, what to do? What to do?
  • 6 replies
    • SDK1987
      SDK1987
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 12.11.2008 Posts: 34,120
      98s seems like a hand you can also call in position with. I don’t think we want to change our hand in a bluff. Especially against an unknown and now you get nice odds, but even then, it’s tough to play 98s in a 4bet pot if we don’t hit something and we missed the flop2 out 3 times and I would still fold.

      As played is floating an option on his small bet, but with only backdoor outs it’s the only way to win the hand with a bluff on later streets and I don’t think against a random NL5 player it’s the best option on long run and is folding still best for me.

      The turn card is indeed 1 of the best cards we can hit and with $3,35 behind I would most likely shove with a pot size bet left, but if you want to bet small I would make it $1 and then you have still room to fold if he shoves.

      The river is a blank and we can only win with bluffing, but with $2,17 behind our villain get good odds to bluff catch and without any info it’s tough to bluff here I think.

      Cheers,
      SDK1987
    • insomnia666
      insomnia666
      Gold
      Joined: 31.07.2010 Posts: 2,416
      Pre-flop fine, I also play, like that.
      OTF Ok. Shove OTT imo. As played, shove OTR, but not so happy.
    • NatKingCole
      NatKingCole
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2007 Posts: 14
      Thanks for the input guys! I should´ve shoved OTT. Instead I didn´t shove river and villain showed QTo...
    • Varune
      Varune
      Silver
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 5,338
      Same mistake i see coming back often here: You turn a perfect hand to flat preflop into a bluff. Furthermore when he 4bets, he is often going to do this with hands that are already better than yours so your chasing negative EV.

      As played you probably have to float this float eventough i don't like it. When we hit an 8 or 9 we're still behind OP's.

      Bet/folding turn would be quite horrendous and the Exact reason why i don't like the 3b/call pre. If you bet/fold turn you're giving up 50% of your stack on a board that sort of favours your hand. After you bet you get direct odds to call it off.
    • insomnia666
      insomnia666
      Gold
      Joined: 31.07.2010 Posts: 2,416
      @Varune, I have a question. Completely friendly. What is your range for 3bet vs SB unknown, NL5? What is your range for call? What is your range for shove vs this size. And for call. Thank you for your response. I mean 3x, 15 cents.
      This is my range for call A2o-A9o, A2s-A9s, K9o-KJo, Q8o-QJo, J8o-JTo, T8o-T9o, K2s-K8s, Q2s-Q8s, J2s-J8s, T6s-T7s, 95s-97s, 85s-86s, 74s-75s, 63s-64s, 54s, 65o-98o, 66-99.
      3bet 22-55, TT+, ATo+, ATs+, 65s+, T8s, J9s, K9s, Q9s , KQo, I mean the f**king top 15% , and 36% call with some ugly hands. But I don't like to fold OTF. And vs 4bet. And I want to have playable hand post-flop, when I do 3bet. Strange range probably, but works just awesome for me.
    • Varune
      Varune
      Silver
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 5,338
      My ranges aren't set in stone, especially not in BvB spots. I often have quick reads on which i base my ranges. I would generally call a wide range because most don't know how to play their SB OOP. But neither do they know how to play SB OOP vs a 3bet.
      But it probably would be something like this:
      Call: 22-99, A2s-ATs K5s-KJs Q6s-QJs J6s-JTs T6s-T9s 97s-98s 87s-86s 76s all offsuit from 89o and higher basicly if i don't 3bet them.
      3b: TT+ AJo+ A2o-A3o AJs+ KQs And i would mix in bluffs with hands like K2-4s Q2-5s J3-5s etc

      But this a spot that changes Drasticly depending on who's opening. Sometimes i prefer calling alot of the hands i would normally 3b if the guy 4bets alot, no need to bloat the pot with marginal hands and position.
      Both ranges can work fine i suppose, alot of people play pretty badly from the SB on micro's(alot of fit fold postflop) so 3betting alot and cbetting can be a valid strat. But then again i would prefer to do this with pretty crappy hands(The low suited kings and queens for example) Than the middling hands like K9s etc. By just calling those hands you keep in hands like K5s etc which you then dominate. But if you 3bet k9s or K2s you're going to BE dominated if he continues, that's why i prefer those.