$1 (+ .25 rake) SnG not profitable.

    • CanDo71
      CanDo71
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 9
      Please correct me if I am wrong but in order for the $1 SnG tables (+ .25 entry fee/rake) to be profitable I would have to win 1 out of every 3 considering the 1st place pay out is $4.50. If I only won 1 out of 4 I'd be at a .50 loss.

      Or otherwise I would have to, minimum, place 3rd every time I played.

      Seems I've lost more money playing these SnGs than won, by far. In fact, my odds of profiting at a cash table are much greater for the same amount of time I'd spent at a $1 SnG.

      So I don't get it. Why does anyone bother playing these tables? I mean, even if you were a really good player I think all factors considered (donks and coin flips) you'd be hard press to make a steady profit at these SnGs considering the entry fee is 1/4 of the buy in. I suppose I should just build my bankroll up til i can afford the $5 SnGs.
  • 8 replies
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      It may seem dissapointing at first, but once you have seen enough videos, and once you
      have enough of the SNG articles read enough times that you can incorporate them into your game,

      you will be owning the $1s and have the BR to move up before you know it.

      The play on the $1s is soooooo soft, the players soooo bad, that you will find yourself
      winning money in the long run, but you will need to put in a high ass volume of SNGs to
      make it seem like a decent chunk to your BR.

      So yeah to sum it up,

      Learn the bronze articles, wtch some bronze videos, especially the $3.40 ones, and then
      play a huge amount of the $1s and watch your BR grow rapidly enough for the buy in.
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Also I think it's good to play these to gain some experience cheaply. The rake is high but the buyin is still low and you get to play the same number of hands as you would for 2 or 5 $ so you gain the experience cheaper than what it would cost you on higher stakes. Any leak you find and fix on the lowest limit won't cost you money on the higher limits.
      It's actually very much possible to beat this limit and when you do you should be doing ok on 2$ SNGs, too. That's why people should play these if they are serious about playing SNGs and making money out of it..
    • miskokvo
      miskokvo
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,502
      hmm better way to gain experience is probably play matrix sng on FT ... up to 5$ ...it is same as playin 5x1,25$ without rake i gues
    • CanDo71
      CanDo71
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 9
      Best so far for me is breaking even on a particularly good run/day. Part of the problem is because it's a cheap buy in donks play for luck. So for example you'll have 3 all-in preflop and only one actually has a premium hand. So someone triples their stack in one hand and now you gotta content with that stack. Or otherwise you'll find your self pushed into coin flip situations which is undesirable if you are trying to make top 3 every time you play. Not to mention sometimes you just don't get a playable hand and then you are forced to play a mediocre one for all your chips or else be blinded out.

      I don't mind losing these SnGs once in awhile but I still need to see a profit in the long run. These tables have been my biggest leak and as soon as stopped playing them and I went back to cash tables I near doubled my bankroll.
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      It's really hard to learn to play SNGs. But once you get the basics down you can play probably up to 22$ SNGs or even higher and still win money..
      You cannot get in the money every time you play, though. That is just impossible and if you try to get ITM every time you will end up losing money in the long run. There are spots when it is a good decision on take the coinflip and there are even spots when you should go all in even though you know you are actually behind. You should try to think about the big picture when you play instead of desperately waiting for your AK to finally push..
    • endorphins
      endorphins
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 2
      Originally posted by LuborC
      It's really hard to learn to play SNGs. But once you get the basics down you can play probably up to 22$ SNGs or even higher and still win money..
      You cannot get in the money every time you play, though. That is just impossible and if you try to get ITM every time you will end up losing money in the long run. There are spots when it is a good decision on take the coinflip and there are even spots when you should go all in even though you know you are actually behind. You should try to think about the big picture when you play instead of desperately waiting for your AK to finally push..
      True indeed. It's also hard for people who are accustomed to play ring-games to jump in SNG's and make it profitable in the beginning. It's a complete different way of playing (of course, poker 101 always applies) and thinking that you take some time to absorb. Read some articles every day (like 8979687 said) so that you can use what you learned without finding yourself waisting time searching your mind for the right strategy.
      Besides that, you have to find your game (if you haven't done so yet). Some people are more SNG oriented while others make their profits in NL alone. Playing SNG's is fun, but if ring-games is where you make your money, don't take it to personal if you loose in the SNG's.

      I'm still trying to find my game. I lost the first SNG's I played and made some profit in Limit and NL, so I stuck with that for some time. But now that I've read quite some articles and have been to incorporate them in my play, I've been able to win at SNG. And if I think about it, I might even like SNG's more. :)
    • Deflowerer
      Deflowerer
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 174
      I'm not sure why the people are playing 1$ SNG's.
      It's insane.
      I guess they play them for fun.

      Even if you're running smoking hot it's a lame profit.
    • 8979687
      8979687
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2008 Posts: 2,225
      Originally posted by CanDo71
      Best so far for me is breaking even on a particularly good run/day. Part of the problem is because it's a cheap buy in donks play for luck. So for example you'll have 3 all-in preflop and only one actually has a premium hand. So someone triples their stack in one hand and now you gotta content with that stack. Or otherwise you'll find your self pushed into coin flip situations which is undesirable if you are trying to make top 3 every time you play. Not to mention sometimes you just don't get a playable hand and then you are forced to play a mediocre one for all your chips or else be blinded out.

      I don't mind losing these SnGs once in awhile but I still need to see a profit in the long run. These tables have been my biggest leak and as soon as stopped playing them and I went back to cash tables I near doubled my bankroll.
      This is actually why you want to play these....

      Donks play for luck at $5 and $6.50 and $11....

      never made it higher but donks have enough money (or sometimes dont know about BR MGMT)
      and they play bigger buy ins....

      Over a few hundred SNGS I find myself in the money ~45%

      But my profits are very good.

      On the $6.50s I am itm ~40%, I have an roi of 14.44 over 294 played.

      You just wont see so much profit yet from the $1s but If you can not beat the $1s then
      do not expect to have an easier time at the $2s etc.

      The key to playing SNGs is to sit back and let everyone else knock each other out.

      Let the LAG aggro monkey get the huge stack by taking out 4 or 5 people.

      If you do not have hands to play this is better for you you are closer to the money, and by
      learning ICM And when to push and fold in the later stages which this site will teach you
      about in depth... you will have an edge over the donks with huge stacks, and double up
      through them and even beat them heads up by being a better player.

      You can go through as many as 10 or more SNGS without getting paid a dime if you
      are playing sets of 4. Variance can be brutal, and its severity varies by the type of SNG you
      play.

      The key is VOLUME! play play play and increase your skill through study.

      Once your skill level is high enough, the more games you get in, the higher your BR grows.

      I started on the $1s and made it up to the $6.50s.

      It took me a long time to get out of the $1s but I am glad I did it step by step.