down to $10 - Let's start SSS

    • NIVEKii
      NIVEKii
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 1,097
      Hey guys,


      So I started with the $50 free bankroll from Pokerstrategy on 22nd January. I had my ups, I had too many downs and now, after roughly one month (and 5,6k hands) I'm down to my last $10. I played my own game as I thought I could handle the 4NL and 10NL limits. Apparently I couldn't and now I decided to give the Short Stack Strategy a try. I started today with trying to master the SSS and only eight hands later, I already had three all-ins. Here is how they went:

      (Litterally hand one)

      ---

      $0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
      7 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG kjpl12 ($11.71)
      UTG+1 AceEatKing ($1.40)
      MP JeanJackCls ($10.00)
      CO jeff__87 ($1.80)
      BTN Noton_ ($9.81)
      SB Hero ($1.90)
      BB marinylja ($1.85)

      Pre-flop: ($0.15, 7 players) Hero is SB Q: Q:
      5 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, marinylja goes all-in $1.75, Hero calls $1.45

      Flop: A: :7d: :9d: ($3.70, 2 players)

      Turn: :6h: ($3.70, 2 players)

      River: :9s: ($3.70, 2 players)

      Final Pot: $3.70
      Hero shows: Q: Q:
      marinylja shows: K: Q:

      Hero wins $3.52 ( won +$1.67 )
      marinylja lost -$1.85

      ---

      Hand number seven

      ---

      $0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
      9 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG shkopa63 ($4.10)
      UTG+1 igorevna ($3.38)
      MP1 Karuner ($10.00)
      MP2 Dansko1986 ($13.48)
      MP3 sincroz89 ($1.35)
      CO MightyPAS ($9.90)
      BTN niveaaa888 ($12.50)
      SB riss_FU ($4.90)
      BB Hero ($2.00)

      Pre-flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is BB A: K:
      5 folds, MightyPAS calls $0.10, niveaaa888 raises to $0.50, riss_FU calls $0.45, Hero goes all-in $1.90, MightyPAS folds, niveaaa888 folds, riss_FU calls $1.50

      Flop: :7d: :3h: :8c: ($4.60, 2 players)

      Turn: :7c: ($4.60, 2 players)

      River: T: ($4.60, 2 players)

      Final Pot: $4.60
      Hero shows: A: K:
      riss_FU shows: :2s: :2h:

      riss_FU wins $4.37 ( won +$2.37 )
      MightyPAS lost -$0.10
      Hero lost -$2
      niveaaa888 lost -$0.50

      ---

      Hand number eight

      ---

      $0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
      8 players
      Converted at weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG shkopa63 ($3.85)
      UTG+1 Dansko1986 ($20.97)
      MP1 sincroz89 ($1.20)
      MP2 Eposchorsch ($1.90)
      CO MarkusP123 ($7.26)
      BTN niveaaa888 ($10.88)
      SB riss_FU ($7.04)
      BB Hero ($2.00)

      Pre-flop: ($0.15, 8 players) Hero is BB K: K:
      6 folds, riss_FU raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.60, riss_FU raises to $2, Hero goes all-in $1.40

      Flop: :8s: Q: :5d: ($4, 2 players)

      Turn: A: ($4, 2 players)

      River: :6s: ($4, 2 players)

      Final Pot: $4
      Hero shows: K: K:
      riss_FU shows: Q: J:

      Hero wins $3.80 ( won +$1.80 )
      riss_FU lost -$2


      That already was more action than I could hope for and it went good for me so far. Samplesize is of course marginal (8 hands WOOHOO) but I was cursing at the guy who called me with 22 :)

      Up $1,37 for the day, which is nice I guess (that's an increase of my br with almost 14%!). I can now easily say (so far) that the SSS is treating me very nicely!

      You might laugh at me for posting this, but it's the first time in two weeks I was thouroughly enjoying playing poker, even tho it was only eight hands.

      Hopefully the SSS will continue to help me out, I have no doubt it will!
  • 15 replies
    • RavinMic
      RavinMic
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 41
      I don't know man, there's alot of varience in SSS. I wish you luck, but you might have waited too long to switch to SSS. Just curious, did you read the bank roll management section?
    • NIVEKii
      NIVEKii
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 1,097
      I did read the bankroll management section, but new players (including myself) always think they're better then they are. I was no exception. As my AKs hand shows, you're right in the part it'll be an up and down sort of strategy, but I'm confident that I will succeed, without sounding too cocky of course.
    • NIVEKii
      NIVEKii
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 1,097
      Small update:

      I'm taking the SSS seriously and made +1BI today! Whippie me!


      Bankroll now stands at $17, which is marginal to say the least, but almost the double of what it was yesterday.


      :heart:
      NIVEKii
    • Dendra
      Dendra
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2009 Posts: 479
      two things i learned so far, AK AQ and such lose more often than not against pocket pairs. and second thing - going all-in preflop without sufficient reads and winning is just luck, it has almost nothing to do with sss.

      basically when you're down on 10bucks last thing you should do is get yourself involved in all-ins, or else you'll repeat my history - going all-in preflop with KK and losing to 92o, row up a few hands like that and you're dead in no time. just my point of view and personal experience :D
    • NIVEKii
      NIVEKii
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 1,097
      Originally posted by Dendra
      two things i learned so far, AK AQ and such lose more often than not against pocket pairs. and second thing - going all-in preflop without sufficient reads and winning is just luck, it has almost nothing to do with sss.

      basically when you're down on 10bucks last thing you should do is get yourself involved in all-ins, or else you'll repeat my history - going all-in preflop with KK and losing to 92o, row up a few hands like that and you're dead in no time. just my point of view and personal experience :D
      Getting reads will be easier once I have a decent amount of samplesize vs my opponents, that's true. I'm interested to hear Dendra how you feel I should try to increase my BR without risking SSS pfai's. If there is a better (and safer) way, I'm really interested on finding out!

      All in all, I can't complain, from $10 to $17 is %-wise a huge increase, let's hope I'll stay a tad lucky until I'm back to around $30 :)
    • Dendra
      Dendra
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2009 Posts: 479
      i'm just learning :D two things i mentioned was simply something i learned the hard way. in general i dislike sss because i cant push around bigger stacks, if i go in a fight vs them i must pretty much always go all-in, 'cause my +50cent or whatever raise is nothing for a guy with 10+ dollars, then he calls me with some crap like 42 and coin flip decides flop should give him cards he needs :D

      i mean bigger stacks can push you away or force you to invest pretty much whole stack just to see the flop. in that situation cards like AK, AQ are too risky if you're low on money. you can't afford going all-in like that 50times in row to get a profit out of it or something, you gotta make maximum profit on pretty much every hand to survive :D

      As for your question, SSS forces you to play only strongest hands and if you're low on money then you gotta be extra careful so I guess it's up to you if you want to gamble - if cards like AK are working then fine but just keep in mind that a donkey could call you with any pocket pair and you'd have pretty good chances to miss the flop and then you'd have just ace high.

      I doubt there is a 100% safe way to determine when to play such high cards - for example, problem is if you bet preflop with AK someone could fold his ace or king, while a guy with pocket pair could call your bet. So now you're chances of getting AA or KK would be slim, flush/straight draw is also a long shot if you have AKo and 3rd option is two pairs on the table which would be better than his.

      Basically by going all-in preflop AK, AQ and such you can often get yourself intro trouble and get busted by these low pairs, I'm actually gonna install the equilator thing just to see what it sais for such hands against pocket pairs - because what I'm saying now is just what I saw from my games where I realised it's much wiser to see the flop and then if it's good you can start draining the other guys' stacks.

      - or else you might end up going all-in AK vs 96 and it would be random who'd win the round based on the board, if you see the flop then you can pretty much always make max profit from such hands or fold it in time if you "see" someone has something you dont like.

      P.S. purpose of the bet preflop with AK is to protect your hand (from what i understood), because you dont want someone with weaker hand get a free play, but as i said the problem is that people dont respect such bets and they'll call you with utter crap - they might get lucky that time and cost you money, even though you are a better player and they'll go broke with that style in a day. so i'm guessing how you play AK and such also depends on the level of intelligence at the table :)
    • NIVEKii
      NIVEKii
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2009 Posts: 1,097
      Thanks for the enlightenment, I'm not too keen on SSS also, it really doesn't give an 'edge' when you're supershortstacked (BR-wise, not BI-wise). But for the moment I don't have much choice, I litterally only play 20ish hands per day now, just to maximize my winnings and build up my bankroll again.

      My goal for March was to play 1k hands per day (only have 5 hours of college in a week) but with the tiny br I now have, I'll see where I end up :) In the meanwhile I'm freerolling like a madman to try and grab some cash along the way :)

      Hopefully I'm not going broke today!
    • Zheelvern
      Zheelvern
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2007 Posts: 704
      The hardest part is climbing to $200. After is easy...
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Hey NIVEKii and Zheelvern,

      Good luck to you, N. I think you're doing exactly the right thing. As you say, you don't have much choice. If you try BSS with yr BR, you're definitely going bust. So you may as well try supertight SSS and hope you can hold out until you get your 500 point PS bonus.

      As regards Dendra's point "or else you might end up going all-in AK vs 96 and it would be random who'd win the round based on the board", can that be right? If neither of you hit, you still have the high card, so I don't see how it can be random.

      Lastly,

      Zheelvern, can you let me know why it gets easier after $200? I hope you're right - I'm about 1/2 way there now - but just wondered why?

      Thanks,
      T
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      higher limits as long as they're still beatable obv have higher profit.
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      With AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, etc you have 51% to beat lower pocket pairs like 22. Basically it's a coin flip, but you still have a bigger chance to win. Would you be 1000 times in such situations you generally would make profit of it. When you go all-in after someone raises with 22 (or someone else raises with a different hand) the person holding 22 doesn't know whether you have AK or AA, so he is even at a bigger advantage. Next time you don't have AK, but AA when someone with 22 calls your all-in. When someone raises and you hold AK you should go all-in immediately cause there are barely any better hands.

      You shouldn't forget bank roll management. On PS you can find that you should have at least 30 buy-ins for a level and you should buy in with 20 BBs. That means that you need at least 600 BBs for a level before you're BR allows you to play it. That means that you play 0.01/0.02 when you have $12 and 0.02/0.05 when you have $30. Than you don't risk that much anymore when you go all in with AK or AQ. It may seem to be less fun to play at these lower limits since you'll make less money when you win, but I would strongly advise you to stick to bank roll management. I myself dropped 250 BBs and my BR definitely wouldn't have survived that when I would have played one or two levels higher.

      Keep up doing the good job and have fun;)

      Tomorrow I hope to pass the $150 limit so that I can move up to 0.10/0.25. I'll be very happy to finally reach this milestones, but I believe it's worth waiting.
    • Smileyphil
      Smileyphil
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2008 Posts: 488
      Just a few thoughts:

      With AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, etc you have 51% to beat lower pocket pairs like 22.

      This isn't true. If we use the equilator we can see that A :spade: K :spade: vs 2 :spade: 2 :heart: is 50.1% in favourite of the 2 :spade: 2 :heart: . Infact this is the best situation for AK because in other situations we may hold AKo or they may have both flushes available.

      The real advantage of the SSS with AK is that if they call preflop with 22 and the flop is something like Q83 then our cbet will win the pot in the majority of cases.

      all-in AK vs 96 and it would be random who'd win the round based on the board

      This isn't true either. Again equilator gives AK vs 96 as a 64.2% favourite. If the AK suits cover the 96 suit then even better.

      To see why this is consider when the board is K63. Both hands spike a pair but the AK pair is always higher. And of course if both miss we have high card value.

      in general i dislike sss because i cant push around bigger stacks, if i go in a fight vs them i must pretty much always go all-in, 'cause my +50cent or whatever raise is nothing for a guy with 10+ dollars, then he calls me with some crap like 42 and coin flip decides flop should give him cards he needs

      Actually you are pushing him around more because you are declaring that you are highly commited before he gets the chance to see the flop. The big stack that calls you with 42 is your prime target!

      So now you're chances of getting AA or KK would be slim

      Erm... this depends how many hands you play really. I play on average 1000 hands a day of SSS. AA and KK are 1% of all possible hands so on average I will get 10. Thats a reasonable amount.

      going all-in preflop without sufficient reads and winning is just luck, it has almost nothing to do with sss.

      It does. The SSS is about creating situations where we move in with the best hand. This achieves two effects. 1) Maximum fold equity because experienced players know we are playing good cards. 2) Great equity when we are called because we have good cards.

      If a player called our SSS range with any two we would have a 69% advantage over them. If you include some fold equity for the times that you scare them off after they have invested money then that is a pretty big edge.
    • ovechkin91
      ovechkin91
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.06.2008 Posts: 201
      my advice is to just deposit your own money then u can play proper poker
    • luitzen
      luitzen
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.04.2009 Posts: 664
      Okay, than I had the 1 at the wrong place;)
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      Originally posted by ovechkin91
      my advice is to just deposit your own money then u can play proper poker
      SSS teaches you patience which is one of the most important skills to have for every single form of poker.

      You are suggesting he short circuit this incredibly important lesson.

      Bad Advice.